Barrister and Mann

Can't wait to purchase all 3 soaps and splashes from B&M on Tuesday Will and Paula are good people.


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Agreed. Have there been any sneak peeks as to the packaging on these? (Dickens, Figgy Puddin', and First Snow)

Not to pile on, but Will's response seemed perfectly appropriate. Bring on the holiday soaps, please!

Honestly I think Will's response is incredible. It's all freaking true. I can only imagine how many entitled messages he got from people no matter what he did. He was surrounded by pitchforks in this lose/lose situation no matter what choice he made.He's human.

If wills reaction to a single customer as a result of this fiasco and in addition to the customers language and the customers horrible tone bothers anyone, seems like you might have some other reason to dislike the vendor not just this particular situation. I couldn't have reacted any better to that.

This whole matter was over the top stupid.

Do you ever fear for the future of humanity? Maybe despair is a better word.

Do you ever fear for the future of humanity?  Maybe despair is a better word.

I don't actually, to be honest shaving forums gave me renewed hope.

I thought being drama queens, whining, 'I want it, I want it now', 'If you aren't good to me, you are bad' etc. etc. were millennial thing (I am borderline millennial). Wolfman, Wolf Whiskers, this and other dramas made me realize all these attributes aren't limited to clueless millennial only, it is prevalent among 'wise - talking', 'men with honor' grown ups.

So world/humanity will survive.

Some would say that's somewhat of an overstatement, but yes, a few will feel that way.  I don't want to reconstitute the controversy, so please address this question at face value:  Did you personally like Passiflora?  Do you think you'll ever make it available again?

I do like it, yes, but I doubt it will ever be made available again. Its history would make it far too controversial.

And, honestly, the fact that such a minor occurrence has inspired such vitriol tells me that there will be those who will make a point of keeping it infamous.

One of your replies to a customer is making the rounds and it's not good. Frankly, I'm a little shocked at the attitude you take towards us, the wet shaving community and your customers. Certainly gives me pause.

One of your replies to a customer is making the rounds and it's not good. Frankly, I'm a little shocked at the attitude you take towards us, the wet shaving community and your customers. Certainly gives me pause.

Not calling you out, but that's a little vague of a description....

He's referring to a private message exchange that was released in the wild.  Personally, in context, I didn't see how it detracted from Will.  However, a couple phrases, taken out of context could paint him in a negative light.  I can only speculate as to the content of the the other side of the PM (that wasn't published, by the way) and how it relates to Will's response (the only part that was published).

The 26th?  Is there a release scheduled that day that i do not know about?

Thank you.

Tuesday, November 22nd. We're releasing our new holiday soaps (Dickens and Latha Figgy Puddin') and our new Winter seasonal (First Snow).

Not sure what is going on but this is the response from Will that Frank posted on Razor Brush that I was speaking about.

Let me tell you about the 1%. You've heard the phrase, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease?" It's true. But have you ever wondered why that is?

Because people like to belong. They like to be part of something. So when someone finds some reason to be upset, more and more people find that same reason to be upset. It's called "psychological priming," and is a well-known principle in marketing and customer service.

Honestly, we were screwed no matter what we did. We tried to do something nice in order to help Peter out so that he could get his feet on the ground and it blew up in our faces. People were pissed that they had to "pay for the privilege" of buying the soap. It didn't matter that there were other benefits, didn't matter that the price is a pittance compared to what the average wet shaving hobbyist spends on shipping in a month's time. All that mattered was the entry fee, the fact that Peter wanted money in exchange for the ability to purchase the product. Their rage threatened his business model, but, more importantly, it threatened us. There were a lot of people who were pissed off, who accused us of DARING to take part in such a thing. In trying to help Peter, who's a genuinely nice guy and is in way over his head, we were dealing with a live grenade without realizing it.

So we attempted to mitigate the damage. We chose the lesser of two evils. You see only that we didn't keep our word, and you're right. But we were trying to do right by our customers, who were whaling on both Peter and us. There was no right answer. There isn't. And we knew there were going to be people like you who were pissed off. But we had to contain as much of the damage as possible in order to keep it from becoming an incident.

Here's the truth: the wet shaving community has become so bitterly negative, so impossibly spoiled by the abundance of choices, that they collectively feel entitled to rant and rave and scream and cry until they get what they want, no matter how unreasonable. Yes, we gave in to the 1%. We did so to prevent it from becoming the 2%, the 5%, the 10%, the 25%. And I'm sorry that we upset you. I'm sorry that you feel cheated. Peter has informed me that he will reimburse you in some fashion, if you contact him about it. I'm happy to give you your money back for the soap. But, unless you are in a position whereby the screaming, angry, entitled bitching of the wet shaving community as a whole threatens your livelihood, give us a break, okay?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of B&M soaps and don't have an axe to grind here. I don't want anyone to think I'm starting trouble, just wanted to give context to my other post and did not want to be left hanging to be picked apart.

Hi all -
do you know of any additions to the reserve product line - new scents? Target release?

Thanks for info

Lloydw, Lavender and Fern are the other two scents. AFAIK, they are still slated for release this month. Hopefully anyway!

Two more are coming...  Lavender and Fern.  Originally scheduled for October, then November.  I think they're pushed back a bit more now.

Lavender and Fern are indeed on the docket, but have been delayed until next year while we work out some production problems. Getting this whole thing to run smoothly has proven to be quite a process, and we're not entirely there yet.

Not sure what is going on but this is the response from Will that Frank posted on Razor Brush that I was speaking about.

Let me tell you about the 1%. You've heard the phrase, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease?" It's true. But have you ever wondered why that is?

Because people like to belong. They like to be part of something. So when someone finds some reason to be upset, more and more people find that same reason to be upset. It's called "psychological priming," and is a well-known principle in marketing and customer service.

Honestly, we were screwed no matter what we did. We tried to do something nice in order to help Peter out so that he could get his feet on the ground and it blew up in our faces. People were pissed that they had to "pay for the privilege" of buying the soap. It didn't matter that there were other benefits, didn't matter that the price is a pittance compared to what the average wet shaving hobbyist spends on shipping in a month's time. All that mattered was the entry fee, the fact that Peter wanted money in exchange for the ability to purchase the product. Their rage threatened his business model, but, more importantly, it threatened us. There were a lot of people who were pissed off, who accused us of DARING to take part in such a thing. In trying to help Peter, who's a genuinely nice guy and is in way over his head, we were dealing with a live grenade without realizing it.

So we attempted to mitigate the damage. We chose the lesser of two evils. You see only that we didn't keep our word, and you're right. But we were trying to do right by our customers, who were whaling on both Peter and us. There was no right answer. There isn't. And we knew there were going to be people like you who were pissed off. But we had to contain as much of the damage as possible in order to keep it from becoming an incident.

Here's the truth: the wet shaving community has become so bitterly negative, so impossibly spoiled by the abundance of choices, that they collectively feel entitled to rant and rave and scream and cry until they get what they want, no matter how unreasonable. Yes, we gave in to the 1%. We did so to prevent it from becoming the 2%, the 5%, the 10%, the 25%. And I'm sorry that we upset you. I'm sorry that you feel cheated. Peter has informed me that he will reimburse you in some fashion, if you contact him about it. I'm happy to give you your money back for the soap. But, unless you are in a position whereby the screaming, angry, entitled bitching of the wet shaving community as a whole threatens your livelihood, give us a break, okay?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of B&M soaps and don't have an axe to grind here. I don't want anyone to think I'm starting trouble, just wanted to give context to my other post and did not want to be left hanging to be picked apart.

Appreciate the context.

To me, it sounds like he is genuinely frustrated, but it is a point in time thing. If you know Will, he's generally an insightful and positive person. He's also very professional. I think even that response, though obvious in frustration, is still professional. There are plenty of really low ways he could have responded.

Not really responding to you personally about your feelings, just expressing my own viewpoint.

My apologies if I seemed a little off-kilter. I had, by this point, very much reached the end of my rope regarding the whole witch hunt, and this gentleman's determination to be violently angry with me no matter what I did (and his subsequent attempts to sic the entire wet shaving community on me, as evidenced by his posting the content of our private conversation here) had rather pushed me to the brink.

In all honesty, I do believe that the abundance of choices, what economists would call a market in "perfect competition," has given some people a rather overblown sense of entitlement, to the point where an honest attempt to help a man (Peter) get his business started was met with anger and upset, and then attempts to remedy the situation were met only with FURTHER anger and upset, to the point that someone started calling me and leaving threatening voicemails.

This is soap, folks. And let me tell you, as someone who does this for a living: there are people out there, the guy responsible for posting this conversation among them, who take this far, FAR too seriously. I did the best I could after basically being hung out to dry, and I offered to make good on the difference of the purchase price, but all that mattered was apparently that I had gone back on my word.

Sometimes, sticking to your word is not the way to go about it. You can die on a hill for a stupid reason, or you can die on a hill for a principled reason. This would have been a stupid reason, so I did the best I could to do right by my customers. The man who posted the conversation did so with the express purpose of harming my business simply because, even though he was able to obtain a perfectly good product, for which I would have reimbursed him the difference had he asked (and, in fact, still would), he did not agree with the MANNER in which he received it. The entire thing has been conducted as a matter of spite, not as a matter of community good or awareness.

Frustrations on both sides disregarded, I think that's pretty pathetic.

Can't wait to purchase all 3 soaps and splashes from B&M on Tuesday Will and Paula are good people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed.  Have there been any sneak peeks as to the packaging on these? (Dickens, Figgy Puddin', and First Snow)

Not to pile on, but Will's response seemed perfectly appropriate. Bring on the holiday soaps, please!

I can't wait to hear what you all think of them! I don't have any photos at the moment, but I'd be happy to post a few tomorrow.

Do you ever fear for the future of humanity?  Maybe despair is a better word.

I don't actually, to be honest shaving forums gave me renewed hope.

I thought being drama queens, whining, 'I want it, I want it now', 'If you aren't good to me, you are bad' etc. etc. were millennial thing (I am borderline millennial). Wolfman, Wolf Whiskers, this and other dramas made me realize all these attributes aren't limited to clueless millennial only, it is prevalent among 'wise - talking', 'men with honor' grown ups.

So world/humanity will survive.

@"iamsms" you only thought that because you haven't often seen the boomers howl for anything. Do you know why? They have everything! They got there before you, took all there was (for cheap[) and left nothing for anybody else. Thats why millennials howl, they have to fight for everything (I mean the big stuff) and overpay too. I'm demographically a boomer and let me tell you, there's nothing like seeing a boomer's response to being denied something they want. There's confusion initially then economic arguments and rants about capitalism and business ethics. Basically a tantrum. Obviously not in all cases

So back to soap I for one am looking forward to First Snow. We've already had a few snows here so I figure its time.

I do like it, yes, but I doubt it will ever be made available again. Its history would make it far too controversial.

And, honestly, the fact that such a minor occurrence has inspired such vitriol tells me that there will be those who will make a point of keeping it infamous.

One of your replies to a customer is making the rounds and it's not good. Frankly, I'm a little shocked at the attitude you take towards us, the wet shaving community and your customers. Certainly gives me pause.

Not calling you out, but that's a little vague of a description....

He's referring to a private message exchange that was released in the wild.  Personally, in context, I didn't see how it detracted from Will.  However, a couple phrases, taken out of context could paint him in a negative light.  I can only speculate as to the content of the the other side of the PM (that wasn't published, by the way) and how it relates to Will's response (the only part that was published).

The 26th?  Is there a release scheduled that day that i do not know about?

Thank you.

Tuesday, November 22nd. We're releasing our new holiday soaps (Dickens and Latha Figgy Puddin') and our new Winter seasonal (First Snow).

Not sure what is going on but this is the response from Will that Frank posted on Razor Brush that I was speaking about.

Let me tell you about the 1%. You've heard the phrase, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease?" It's true. But have you ever wondered why that is?

Because people like to belong. They like to be part of something. So when someone finds some reason to be upset, more and more people find that same reason to be upset. It's called "psychological priming," and is a well-known principle in marketing and customer service.

Honestly, we were screwed no matter what we did. We tried to do something nice in order to help Peter out so that he could get his feet on the ground and it blew up in our faces. People were pissed that they had to "pay for the privilege" of buying the soap. It didn't matter that there were other benefits, didn't matter that the price is a pittance compared to what the average wet shaving hobbyist spends on shipping in a month's time. All that mattered was the entry fee, the fact that Peter wanted money in exchange for the ability to purchase the product. Their rage threatened his business model, but, more importantly, it threatened us. There were a lot of people who were pissed off, who accused us of DARING to take part in such a thing. In trying to help Peter, who's a genuinely nice guy and is in way over his head, we were dealing with a live grenade without realizing it.

So we attempted to mitigate the damage. We chose the lesser of two evils. You see only that we didn't keep our word, and you're right. But we were trying to do right by our customers, who were whaling on both Peter and us. There was no right answer. There isn't. And we knew there were going to be people like you who were pissed off. But we had to contain as much of the damage as possible in order to keep it from becoming an incident.

Here's the truth: the wet shaving community has become so bitterly negative, so impossibly spoiled by the abundance of choices, that they collectively feel entitled to rant and rave and scream and cry until they get what they want, no matter how unreasonable. Yes, we gave in to the 1%. We did so to prevent it from becoming the 2%, the 5%, the 10%, the 25%. And I'm sorry that we upset you. I'm sorry that you feel cheated. Peter has informed me that he will reimburse you in some fashion, if you contact him about it. I'm happy to give you your money back for the soap. But, unless you are in a position whereby the screaming, angry, entitled bitching of the wet shaving community as a whole threatens your livelihood, give us a break, okay?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of B&M soaps and don't have an axe to grind here. I don't want anyone to think I'm starting trouble, just wanted to give context to my other post and did not want to be left hanging to be picked apart.

Lavender and Fern are indeed on the docket, but have been delayed until next year while we work out some production problems. Getting this whole thing to run smoothly has proven to be quite a process, and we're not entirely there yet.

Not sure what is going on but this is the response from Will that Frank posted on Razor Brush that I was speaking about.

Let me tell you about the 1%. You've heard the phrase, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease?" It's true. But have you ever wondered why that is?

Because people like to belong. They like to be part of something. So when someone finds some reason to be upset, more and more people find that same reason to be upset. It's called "psychological priming," and is a well-known principle in marketing and customer service.

Honestly, we were screwed no matter what we did. We tried to do something nice in order to help Peter out so that he could get his feet on the ground and it blew up in our faces. People were pissed that they had to "pay for the privilege" of buying the soap. It didn't matter that there were other benefits, didn't matter that the price is a pittance compared to what the average wet shaving hobbyist spends on shipping in a month's time. All that mattered was the entry fee, the fact that Peter wanted money in exchange for the ability to purchase the product. Their rage threatened his business model, but, more importantly, it threatened us. There were a lot of people who were pissed off, who accused us of DARING to take part in such a thing. In trying to help Peter, who's a genuinely nice guy and is in way over his head, we were dealing with a live grenade without realizing it.

So we attempted to mitigate the damage. We chose the lesser of two evils. You see only that we didn't keep our word, and you're right. But we were trying to do right by our customers, who were whaling on both Peter and us. There was no right answer. There isn't. And we knew there were going to be people like you who were pissed off. But we had to contain as much of the damage as possible in order to keep it from becoming an incident.

Here's the truth: the wet shaving community has become so bitterly negative, so impossibly spoiled by the abundance of choices, that they collectively feel entitled to rant and rave and scream and cry until they get what they want, no matter how unreasonable. Yes, we gave in to the 1%. We did so to prevent it from becoming the 2%, the 5%, the 10%, the 25%. And I'm sorry that we upset you. I'm sorry that you feel cheated. Peter has informed me that he will reimburse you in some fashion, if you contact him about it. I'm happy to give you your money back for the soap. But, unless you are in a position whereby the screaming, angry, entitled bitching of the wet shaving community as a whole threatens your livelihood, give us a break, okay?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of B&M soaps and don't have an axe to grind here. I don't want anyone to think I'm starting trouble, just wanted to give context to my other post and did not want to be left hanging to be picked apart.

Appreciate the context.

To me, it sounds like he is genuinely frustrated, but it is a point in time thing. If you know Will, he's generally an insightful and positive person. He's also very professional. I think even that response, though obvious in frustration, is still professional. There are plenty of really low ways he could have responded.

Not really responding to you personally about your feelings, just expressing my own viewpoint.

My apologies if I seemed a little off-kilter. I had, by this point, very much reached the end of my rope regarding the whole witch hunt, and this gentleman's determination to be violently angry with me no matter what I did (and his subsequent attempts to sic the entire wet shaving community on me, as evidenced by his posting the content of our private conversation here) had rather pushed me to the brink.

In all honesty, I do believe that the abundance of choices, what economists would call a market in "perfect competition," has given some people a rather overblown sense of entitlement, to the point where an honest attempt to help a man (Peter) get his business started was met with anger and upset, and then attempts to remedy the situation were met only with FURTHER anger and upset, to the point that someone started calling me and leaving threatening voicemails.

This is soap, folks. And let me tell you, as someone who does this for a living: there are people out there, the guy responsible for posting this conversation among them, who take this far, FAR too seriously. I did the best I could after basically being hung out to dry, and I offered to make good on the difference of the purchase price, but all that mattered was apparently that I had gone back on my word.

Sometimes, sticking to your word is not the way to go about it. You can die on a hill for a stupid reason, or you can die on a hill for a principled reason. This would have been a stupid reason, so I did the best I could to do right by my customers. The man who posted the conversation did so with the express purpose of harming my business simply because, even though he was able to obtain a perfectly good product, for which I would have reimbursed him the difference had he asked (and, in fact, still would), he did not agree with the MANNER in which he received it. The entire thing has been conducted as a matter of spite, not as a matter of community good or awareness.

Frustrations on both sides disregarded, I think that's pretty pathetic.

Can't wait to purchase all 3 soaps and splashes from B&M on Tuesday Will and Paula are good people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed.  Have there been any sneak peeks as to the packaging on these? (Dickens, Figgy Puddin', and First Snow)

Not to pile on, but Will's response seemed perfectly appropriate. Bring on the holiday soaps, please!

I can't wait to hear what you all think of them! I don't have any photos at the moment, but I'd be happy to post a few tomorrow.

Very well said and professional. You still have my business...

Tim

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Yes Tim, but to be fair, the only way you'd stop buying his stuff is if he stopped making soap and bought up all the second hand market.