Artificial scarcity

...but I can't bring myself to calling plastic high end.

The U.S. Military uses a rifle with "plastic" furniture and the Army just adopted a polymer frame handgun, the SIG P320. Just as there are both excellent & sub-par metal alloys, the same applies to polymers (plastics).

Meanwhile private equity is coming in and dumping cheap ass wet shaving shit all over amazon & the like. Bought out West Coast. etc etc.

More stuff and more affordable is good, right?

No... Do you like the cheap ass plastic shit that's taken over everything you find at Walmart? If so, why do you even wet shave? And if so, that's up to you, but the rest of us do not like the cheap ass plastic shit. Which is how you drop prices. You slash the quality.

having stuff made in plastic lowers the barrier of entry for TONS of people around the world.

yes, we'd all love to have stuff made using metal or better materials, but then less people would be able to afford doing what it is we do.

also, please see rule #2 on the site: https://damnfineshave.com/announcement-site-rules

For clarity and accuracy's sake, we just celebrated our fourth anniversary a couple of months ago. Some of us have been around for longer than you think.

Congratulations Will!

It's amazing that in such a short period, Barrister and Mann and Cold River Soap Works have established themselves as the benchmark and pinnacle of shaving soap.

One of the points being made in this thread, at least if I’m interpreting it correctly, is the implication that in order for wet shaving to become more mainstream, it will require the likes of Gillette to become more involved due to their marketing prowess. And if this were to happen, it would create an adverse market for artisans in the community, maybe even resulting in the exodus of many of our beloved brush/razor/soap-makers. Although I understand the premise of this argument, I disagree that it has to happen in this manner and offer a more enlightening scenario.

I generally look at what has happened to the craft-brewing industry and believe the same could occur with wet shaving. Craft-brewing was not mainstream until Samuel Adams made it mainstream. I’m sure Budweiser/Miller/etc. didn’t believe a small brewer from Boston would ever be able to make a dent in their sales or popularity. But what Sam Adams did, and did very well, was promote the craft brewing industry and encouraged other small brewers to enter the market. Part of that promotion was education, both to home-brewers and to the public. In order for wet-shaving to become mainstream, it will require educating the public. One way to do so is through ads, however, a slow methodical approach can work as well. But another, maybe more important, aspect of what Sam Adams did was encourage and help other brewers. This cooperation would certainly go against economical norms (ie helping your competitor). But, imo, what resulted from that cooperation was exactly what Sam Adams was hoping for…more craft brews being recognized by the market and increasing market exposure for their own brand.

In regards to cost, sure there are some who get into this to save money. Then there are the hobbyists who have no issue with owning a multitude of soaps/brushes/razors. But, more importantly, there are consumers all along the cost spectrum. Craft brewing certainly seems to have exploded over the past decade and consumers are more than willing to pay more for a “good” beer. Some of those consumers are likely to pick up a case of Bud for home but are also willing to grab a 6-pack of craft brew for a Saturday evening wind-down. Those same types of buyers could be present in wet shaving. Maybe they utilize canned gel or foam throughout the week but then enjoy a nice relaxed shave with brush/soap/blade on the weekend.

Following the craft-brewing model likely wouldn’t result in our market being flooded with (perceived) cheap material goods. Costs for current products likely wouldn’t have to be slashed and profits for our current artisans would likely increase. At one point in this thread, Will wrote that the first artisan to “figure it out” will win. My suggestion, or maybe challenge is a better word, for any artisan reading this would be to contact Jim Koch (one of the founders of Samuel Adams) and ask for the blueprint to challenge the “Big Boys”. Maybe he could even sneak wet-shaving into one of his commercials or specialty beers. Would love to see a commercial with him wet-shaving while drinking a Fat Boy Stout

Following the craft-brewing model likely wouldn’t result in our market being flooded with (perceived) cheap material goods.  Costs for current products likely wouldn’t have to be slashed and profits for our current artisans would likely increase.  At one point in this thread, Will wrote that the first artisan to “figure it out” will win.  My suggestion, or maybe challenge is a better word, for any artisan reading this would be to contact Jim Koch (one of the founders of Samuel Adams) and ask for the blueprint to challenge the “Big Boys”.  Maybe he could even sneak wet-shaving into one of his commercials or specialty beers.  Would love to see a commercial with him wet-shaving while drinking a Fat Boy Stout  

Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath about that one. But my specific concern is that it's much easier to scale up a brewing operation than it is a soap operation, primarily because a brewing operation does not involve the use of caustic or explosive materials. A brewing license is dramatically easier to get than an SDA license, and many of the machines that we have built to help improve and speed up production simply don't exist in the equipment world (and thus has to be constructed from scratch). I think we have a LOOOONG way to go yet before we even get to the point where there's the potential to grow like Sam Adams did.

I think we have a LOOOONG way to go yet before we even get to the point where there's the potential to grow like Sam Adams did.

I certainly don't disagree...as a matter of fact, I think you're spot on. From the logistics to the legalities to the real estate to everything in between, creating an operation to mass-produce specialty shave soaps is an endeavor few, if any, would be willing to take on. But think of the sense of accomplishment if it could be achieved....to be the next Sam Adams

I think we have a LOOOONG way to go yet before we even get to the point where there's the potential to grow like Sam Adams did.

I certainly don't disagree...as a matter of fact, I think you're spot on.  From the logistics to the legalities to the real estate to everything in between, creating an operation to mass-produce specialty shave soaps is an endeavor few, if any, would be willing to take on.  But think of the sense of accomplishment if it could be achieved....to be the next Sam Adams

One thing that you have to keep in mind is that when Sam Adams began they didn't actually brew their own beer - they had their beer brewed under contract with a large commercial brewery that has unutilized capacity. They brewed Sam Adams to the specific recipe provided for in the contract including premium ingredients etc. The large commercial breweries are expert brewmasters and can brew anything you like. They brew the beer they brew by design not because its the best they can do. Sam Adams was eventually successful enough to build their own breweries and other craft brewers have used the same model to become successful as well.

Query whether soap can be made according to this model? Large state of the art soap manufacturing facility with excess capacity could make soap under contract for an artisan according to artisans precise recipe. What would be wrong with that?

I think we have a LOOOONG way to go yet before we even get to the point where there's the potential to grow like Sam Adams did.

I certainly don't disagree...as a matter of fact, I think you're spot on.  From the logistics to the legalities to the real estate to everything in between, creating an operation to mass-produce specialty shave soaps is an endeavor few, if any, would be willing to take on.  But think of the sense of accomplishment if it could be achieved....to be the next Sam Adams

One thing that you have to keep in mind is that when Sam Adams began they didn't actually brew their own beer - they had their beer brewed under contract with a large commercial brewery that has unutilized capacity.  They brewed Sam Adams to the specific recipe provided for in the contract including premium ingredients etc.  The large commercial breweries are expert brewmasters and can brew anything you like.  They brew the beer they brew by design not because its the best they can do.  Sam Adams was eventually successful enough to build their own breweries and other craft brewers have used the same model to become successful as well.

Query whether soap can be made according to this model?  Large state of the art soap manufacturing facility with excess capacity could make soap under contract for an artisan according to artisans precise recipe.  What would be wrong with that?

Nothing. But, having looked into the matter, most commercial soap manufacturers do not operate that way. They have hard-and-fast minimums of 25,000 pieces (at least; some have minimums of 100,000 or more), which is simply beyond the reach of the artisan soap world. If you have the kind of cash to purchase that much soap at once, you're probably not an artisan shaving soap manufacturer in the first place.

For clarity and accuracy's sake, we just celebrated our fourth anniversary a couple of months ago. Some of us have been around for longer than you think.

Congratulations Will!

It's amazing that in such a short period, Barrister and Mann and Cold River Soap Works have established themselves as the benchmark and pinnacle of shaving soap.

Thank you! (sorry, though I had answered you).

I certainly don't disagree...as a matter of fact, I think you're spot on.  From the logistics to the legalities to the real estate to everything in between, creating an operation to mass-produce specialty shave soaps is an endeavor few, if any, would be willing to take on.  But think of the sense of accomplishment if it could be achieved....to be the next Sam Adams

One thing that you have to keep in mind is that when Sam Adams began they didn't actually brew their own beer - they had their beer brewed under contract with a large commercial brewery that has unutilized capacity.  They brewed Sam Adams to the specific recipe provided for in the contract including premium ingredients etc.  The large commercial breweries are expert brewmasters and can brew anything you like.  They brew the beer they brew by design not because its the best they can do.  Sam Adams was eventually successful enough to build their own breweries and other craft brewers have used the same model to become successful as well.

Query whether soap can be made according to this model?  Large state of the art soap manufacturing facility with excess capacity could make soap under contract for an artisan according to artisans precise recipe.  What would be wrong with that?

Nothing. But, having looked into the matter, most commercial soap manufacturers do not operate that way. They have hard-and-fast minimums of 25,000 pieces (at least; some have minimums of 100,000 or more), which is simply beyond the reach of the artisan soap world. If you have the kind of cash to purchase that much soap at once, you're probably not an artisan shaving soap manufacturer in the first place.

There is a distinct difference between artisans and soapmakers. True artisans, by definition, are only a few in this hobby.

I know a greek artisan( Smooth Operator), who makes 5-8 soaps each time. Yes, her products are definitely artisanal.

We confuse the definition very often, especially the last years where "artisan" is the new trend.

If someone makes dozens or hundreds of soaps each time, then he/she is NOT an artisan.