Artificial scarcity

The Quality of the artisan product has to be real. There are a lot of artisan products that are not any better than Proraso, Van Der Hagen, or even the foam in the can. Just because something is made by an artisan does not mean that it is any good. The forums give a lot of very average soaps undeserved hype. I am now saving more money by going straight to Nuavia, ABC, Panama Boellis, etc. instead of trying the new releases from artisans. I purchased a number of the high end soaps on sale direct from Italy and they work out to roughly twice the cost of an average artisan soap, but at least I don't have to suffer through 2 average soaps.

Of course they do, but the point is, you aren't going to find solid wood furniture at Walmart. And we aren't talking about electronics or anything high tech which is the only quality item that comes out of China. I suppose they make good plastics, but I can't bring myself to calling plastic high end.

China makes good, shave brushes, shirts, pants, scopes, etc. quality control varies in china much like the USA. Lots of companies in the USA make total crap with poor quality control too. Just cause something's USA made doesn't make it good.

As for furniture you won't find solid wood furniture at many stores except goodwill or furniture stores. Most people really don't care if it's solid wood. I have a particle board computer desk that's like 7 years old and a tv stand that's older then me. Are they as good looking as my hand crafter cedar chest, no but they do the job they for very well.

Shave related. Walmart sells Nivea products and other aftershaves.

Of course they do, but the point is, you aren't going to find solid wood furniture at Walmart. And we aren't talking about electronics or anything high tech which is the only quality item that comes out of China. I suppose they make good plastics, but I can't bring myself to calling plastic high end.

What difference does it make, provided the furniture is durable, aesthetically pleasing, of good quality construction and is good value for the money?  Or put another way, what difference does it make whether the cat is black or white so long as it catches the mice?

Some wetshavers on the forums might fuss and fret over irrelevant details, but they are a tiny fraction of traditional wetshavers overall.

A big part of the allure of this hobby is the rebellion against the notion that shaving has to be utilitarian and mundane. Mainstream expansion is what got us to that point in the first place. Continuing to push for it will only serve to restart the cycle -- which has already started.

That might be true for some, but the allure for me was improved shaves and value for the money.  High quality beautiful stuff and great shaves for dirt cheap vs. average shaves for high cost with a plastic razor handle that looks like Liberace's toothbrush... That is an easy choice.  From what I have read on the forums, better shaves and reduced costs are what motivate many to switch to traditional shaving.   A percentage might go on to be hobbyists, but there are a lot who just want a smooth, enjoyable shave.  Practical and focused does not have to be utilitarian or mundane, and there is much to be said for value for the money.  

To make traditional shaving mainstream again seems to be a fervently sought after a goal for a lot of folks.  There are many posts about evangalising and converting frends, family and co-workers to wetshaving.  If these shaving Prometheuses are successful, that will ultimately lead to mainstream use of traditional tools and methods.  If it makes shaving a better experience for the general public, then good.

No one is denying that Proraso et al work. But if you want the artisan makers with actual overhead to continue to survive, we need customers to buy our offerings. You will absolutely not find artisan shave soap at the same price as Proraso. It is not possible unless we worked for free. The process does not lend itself to mass manufacture. The best you'll get is Tabac or Valobra (which already dominate that space, so really, that's all you'll get).

Other shave soap small businesses are able to get close. They come in at similar price around $10-12. this makes them similar or even lower price then bunch of commercial soaps. Artisians(aka small businesses) have to compete with each other and the big guys. I won't coddle a small business. I'll buy their product if it's good and a value. I'll rebuy when it's used up and continues to be good and value. When you climb in price you're going decrease your potential market. Many won't pay $20-30 for 2-4 oz when there's similar soaps for half the price. I think that's why stirling is such a staple , they offer great soap, at 2.50 and oz. they also make great bath soap which gets them add on repeat sales. I go through bath soap faster then shave soap. Add on sales and value are important in sales. At least corporate says so.
Probably better conversation for a market price discussion thread. As for mass manufacturing. I have no doubt that a company could take your recipe and using the same ingredients mass produce very similar product, only difference being it'd be the same from batch to batch due to computer controlled precise measuring and ingredient testing at the end. It could be debatable the variance between batches makes it artisan I suppose, however also debated that it sucks to buy a soap then bebuy and have that new soap preform less. I'd rather have uniformity. Is there a market for a mass produced artisan soap. Probably not currently. But to say it couldn't be done is ridiculous.
Big soap companies cut Corners to increase their already big profit. But it's not impossible for a company to make a product with great ingredients and make a profit.
But who'd they sell to. The market is already saturated. Many like me are slowing down or stopping buying soap all together. I have 30+ soaps that take me years to use. Others have hundreds. The idea customer would seem to be that guy who buys one soap and uses it til it's gone. They'll probably in the wetshaving to save money camp. When they finish they'll rebuy the same soap. Doubt many of them are on the hobby forums or Facebook groups, most would say we're silly. It's just shaving guys. I don't envoy any of the small business guys, I'd not want to get into soap making.

It is, and probably will remain, unfeasible to ship water via freighter. Weighs too much and takes up a ton of space.

That's why bottling plants are located near where they ultimately need to go....

Then why have Pepsi & Coke shuttered most of their old bottling plants scattered about the USA and consolidated them in just a few large metro areas? A former Pepsi bottling plant near where I grew up now merely serves as a warehouse/dist. ctr. for them now. I think this is more complicated than many realize with logistical cost planning. Of course, everyone knows that labor is usually the largest expense in the US nowadays.

It is, and probably will remain, unfeasible to ship water via freighter. Weighs too much and takes up a ton of space.

That's why bottling plants are located near where they ultimately need to go....

Then why have Pepsi & Coke shuttered most of their old bottling plants scattered about the USA and consolidated them in just a few large metro areas? A former Pepsi bottling plant near where I grew up now merely serves as a warehouse/dist. ctr. for them now. I think this is more complicated than many realize with logistical cost planning. Of course, everyone knows that labor is usually the largest expense in the US nowadays.

Freighter. As in ocean freighter.

As for mass manufacturing. I have no doubt that a company could take your recipe and using the same ingredients mass produce very similar product, only difference being it'd be the same from batch to batch due to computer controlled precise measuring and ingredient testing at the end. It could be debatable the variance between batches makes it artisan I suppose, however also debated that it sucks to buy a soap then bebuy and have that new soap preform less. I'd rather have uniformity. Is there a market for a mass produced artisan soap. Probably not currently. But to say it couldn't be done is ridiculous.

You're free to believe whatever you want. But the continuous method cannot be used to make the same soap I make. Could it be similar? Maybe. Is Tabac produced via the continuous method? Yes. Can you get close? Maybe. Will it be the same? No. Proraso has the same ingredients as MdC and is made using a different process to the continuous process, but it's not the same as MdC. And it's more cream than soap.

I'm 99.99% sure that that style of soap would gunk up the pipes in the continuous process method.

edit: Actually I'm not certain whether Tabac is continuous process or kettle made. They're small enough that they could be either.

The point I'm trying to make is that artisan soap will never be mainstream. It's too expensive and not enough people want it.

Artisan soaps might never command a majority of the market, but there will always be some artisan shaving soaps for sale. Some of them will grow to the point that they have a steady revenue stream. Not all artisan soaps are pricey. Stirling is a good example. There will likely always be a multitude of hobbyist soapmakers at the very least, along with a few larger but still small scale businesses. Add to that the larger manufacturers, and any limitation of supply by one brand will not make any difference in the overall market or any of it's segments.

The marketing term for plastic in "higher end" (i.e., expensive) products is "resin". Case in point - all those fancy, multi-coloured shaving brush handles.

And also the Mont Blanc pens made with "precious resin". They have a special edition that is artisanal precious resin, which is supposedly made by elves in the Black Forest. Pixie dust and unicorn tears are said to be part of the formulation.

It is, and probably will remain, unfeasible to ship water via freighter. Weighs too much and takes up a ton of space.

That's why bottling plants are located near where they ultimately need to go....

Then why have Pepsi & Coke shuttered most of their old bottling plants scattered about the USA and consolidated them in just a few large metro areas? A former Pepsi bottling plant near where I grew up now merely serves as a warehouse/dist. ctr. for them now. I think this is more complicated than many realize with logistical cost planning. Of course, everyone knows that labor is usually the largest expense in the US nowadays.

Freighter. As in ocean freighter.

I understand that, however freighters as well as trucks & trains all use petroleum for propulsion.

This is far more complicated than it appears initially. A perfect case study is Edgewell (Personna) who owns a razor blade factory in Israel, yet ship the manufactured blades to Mexico for packaging. Why? Because the products "touch" a NAFTA country (Mexico) Edgewell gets tax credits. Enough so to offset double shipping.

Freighter. As in ocean freighter.

I understand that, however freighters as well as trucks & trains all use petroleum for propulsion.

This is far more complicated than it appears initially. A perfect case study is Edgewell (Personna) who owns a razor blade factory in Israel, yet ship the manufactured blade to Mexico for packaging. Why? Because the products "touch" a NAFTA country (Mexico) Edgewell gets tax credits. Enough so to offset double shipping.

The debate here is starting to go down yet another rabbit hole.  It's the big picture that counts, not the minutiae.

Maybe because forums infinitely work better when they are a discussion that initiates Dialog with shared understanding, open-mindedness and not a "DEBATE" that is oppositional: two opposing sides trying to prove each other wrong!

As for the subject at hand, Artisan and whatever that defines as, have to utilize creative sale methods and product to get their message out and drive sales. Price will never be a main selling feature when anyone can pick up a $2 can of shaving cream from Walmart/Asda or a $1 stick of Arko online.