#1,061

Just Here for the Shaves
Williamsburg, KY
(11-19-2021, 01:53 PM)Moriarty Wrote: Tester, you absolutely must never buy a Ferrari. They look lovely from a distance but if you look closely at the details it is quickly apparent they are not up to the standards of a high volume mass production car like a Mercedes or a Toyota. Owners buy Ferraris for other reasons, not the build quality, and they would indeed be disappointed if they had thought the astronomical price tag should imply otherwise. Ferraris are built the way low volume, non-automated production things are built. The stitching on the leather is wonky, the welds are clumsy, panels don’t always fit as perfectly as you’d like, and occasionally they catch fire. Owning a Ferrari is bracing and exciting, in many ways.

That said, Rocnel razors are not all that expensive, and mine seems to be impeccably engineered and built. Certainly a lot better built than any Ferrari. But if Murat is making maybe a hundred and then tweaking the design a bit and making a hundred slightly different ones, it is inevitable that there will be some defects from time to time. He doesn’t allow himself the volume and stability of production to identify and iron out every possible failure point. And that’s also one of the things that makes buying a Rocnel attractive - it’s always new and improved and a bit experimental.

I guess my point is that I bought a particular limited-time variant of what was already a single year, low production razor design, expecting that it was well made with high quality materials, and an excellent shaver. And it is all of those things. I also knew that it is essentially a prototype in some ways, and that Murat’s drive to continually tweak and improve the razor means they will always be prototypes. Each new variant will improve on issues that were found in prior versions, but will also introduce new ideas that can result in a small number of unforseen new issues. He could eliminate these issues by making the exact same razor for several years, perfecting every element of production, and not changing the product. But I’m sort of glad that he doesn’t work that way. It is a constantly evolving product, and I think that’s cool. There’s a risk that comes with that, which of course causes occasional disappointments, but it is inevitable and all Murat can do in this circumstance is stand behind his product and take good care of his customers when they have issues, which I think he does.

The defect rate on Sailors seems to be very low for a limited time, low production, and somewhat complex item. But we can’t expect the defect rate to match that of any highly automated and long-term mass produced razor, like a Mühle R89, for example. The flipside is that the Sailor is much more rare, special, innovative, and evolved. I think that is the calculus that buyers have to make.

Good Points

Calm_Shaver, Scaramouche and LOOT like this post
This post by Dave in KY mentions views and opinions expressed and makes it known that they are "those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of DFS or any other member, agency, organization, employer or company."  Big Grin
#1,062

Living on the edge
(11-19-2021, 01:53 PM)Moriarty Wrote: Tester, you absolutely must never buy a Ferrari. They look lovely from a distance but if you look closely at the details it is quickly apparent they are not up to the standards of a high volume mass production car like a Mercedes or a Toyota. Owners buy Ferraris for other reasons, not the build quality, and they would indeed be disappointed if they had thought the astronomical price tag should imply otherwise. Ferraris are built the way low volume, non-automated production things are built. The stitching on the leather is wonky, the welds are clumsy, panels don’t always fit as perfectly as you’d like, and occasionally they catch fire. Owning a Ferrari is bracing and exciting, in many ways.

That said, Rocnel razors are not all that expensive, and mine seems to be impeccably engineered and built. Certainly a lot better built than any Ferrari. But if Murat is making maybe a hundred and then tweaking the design a bit and making a hundred slightly different ones, it is inevitable that there will be some defects from time to time. He doesn’t allow himself the volume and stability of production to identify and iron out every possible failure point. And that’s also one of the things that makes buying a Rocnel attractive - it’s always new and improved and a bit experimental.

I guess my point is that I bought a particular limited-time variant of what was already a single year, low production razor design, expecting that it was well made with high quality materials, and an excellent shaver. And it is all of those things. I also knew that it is essentially a prototype in some ways, and that Murat’s drive to continually tweak and improve the razor means they will always be prototypes. Each new variant will improve on issues that were found in prior versions, but will also introduce new ideas that can result in a small number of unforseen new issues. He could eliminate these issues by making the exact same razor for several years, perfecting every element of production, and not changing the product. But I’m sort of glad that he doesn’t work that way. It is a constantly evolving product, and I think that’s cool. There’s a risk that comes with that, which of course causes occasional disappointments, but it is inevitable and all Murat can do in this circumstance is stand behind his product and take good care of his customers when they have issues, which I think he does.

The defect rate on Sailors seems to be very low for a limited time, low production, and somewhat complex item. But we can’t expect the defect rate to match that of any highly automated and long-term mass produced razor, like a Mühle R89, for example. The flipside is that the Sailor is much more rare, special, innovative, and evolved. I think that is the calculus that buyers have to make.

I know.....I own one.

Just expressing my opinion.....ferrari tail decals/racing fins don't just fall off mid race (I hope)

LOOT and Scaramouche like this post
#1,063

Member
Midwest
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2021, 04:11 PM by Scaramouche.)
Well, at least the Rocnel didn't fall off a truck!  The medallion on that SF90 may need to be re-glued....Big Grin

https://youtu.be/vI3cB4C-GE4

Frl2, AQU, LOOT and 1 others like this post
Something wild is loose
#1,064
(11-19-2021, 04:10 PM)Scaramouche Wrote: Well, at least the Rocnel didn't fall off a truck!  The medallion on that SF90 may need to be re-glued....Big Grin

https://youtu.be/vI3cB4C-GE4

Now that's what you call a "special delivery" lol  Tongue

LOOT, Scaramouche and muzichead like this post
#1,065
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2021, 08:32 PM by Sledge.)
(11-18-2021, 02:17 AM)cornbread Wrote:
(11-18-2021, 02:14 AM)Scaramouche Wrote:
(11-18-2021, 01:44 AM)cornbread Wrote: Serves me right for constantly asking for a lighter Sailor. Sigh. Now 6 grams lighter, meaning I possess the worlds lightest MC sailor.

[Image: d2hGaju.jpg]
Uh...fell out?  Glued in?

There was no glue residue. I noticed it had some play last week but tonight it just fell out.
Seems now you could add weights like with a pool cue. I would shoot for 18-20. Smile

LOOT and Scaramouche like this post
#1,066
(11-20-2021, 08:30 PM)Sledge Wrote:
(11-18-2021, 02:17 AM)cornbread Wrote:
(11-18-2021, 02:14 AM)Scaramouche Wrote: Uh...fell out?  Glued in?

There was no glue residue. I noticed it had some play last week but tonight it just fell out.
Looks like you can add weights like with a pool cue.

Waiting on the gold plating then going right back in with a loctite. Had to really shop around as several jewelers did not want to attempt to plate something so little

Scaramouche, LOOT, Frl2 and 1 others like this post
#1,067

Just Here for the Shaves
Williamsburg, KY
(11-20-2021, 08:32 PM)cornbread Wrote:
(11-20-2021, 08:30 PM)Sledge Wrote:
(11-18-2021, 02:17 AM)cornbread Wrote: There was no glue residue. I noticed it had some play last week but tonight it just fell out.
Looks like you can add weights like with a pool cue.

Waiting on the gold plating then going right back in with a loctite. Had to really shop around as several jewelers did not want to attempt to plate something so little

Congrats and looking forward to seeing it done !

keto, Scaramouche and Frl2 like this post
This post by Dave in KY mentions views and opinions expressed and makes it known that they are "those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of DFS or any other member, agency, organization, employer or company."  Big Grin
#1,068

Member
Midwest
I'd just like to report that I shaved with mine this morning, and the medallion did not fall out, the head fall off, the lettering fade or the handle rust.   Big Grin

[Image: 20211120_152308%5B5897%5D-X3.jpg]

LOOT, cornbread, Frl2 and 2 others like this post
Something wild is loose
#1,069
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2021, 11:53 PM by Sledge.)
From reviews it appears the 2021 is a smaller, lighter version of the 2020 with a flatter head profile and black setting indicators.  Is that a fair assessment?  Anything major improved? 

I've been out of town for a week and left the Sailor at home.  I missed it.

Scaramouche, AQU and LOOT like this post
#1,070

Member
Midwest
(11-20-2021, 11:53 PM)Sledge Wrote: From reviews it appears the 2021 is a smaller, lighter version of the 2020 with a flatter head profile and black setting indicators.  Is that a fair assessment?  Anything major improved? 

I've been out of town for a week and left the Sailor at home.  I missed it.
I own no other Sailors, but I suppose weight is relative - the 2021 MC weighs in at almost 140 g, so right now the heftiest razor I own.  I believe the 2021 has a shorter handle (described elsewhere), and may be slightly wider (others can weigh in).  The knurling may be more shallow also, but at least on mine, it's sharply cut and provides an unexpectedly good grip.  The top cap profile does appear to be flatter than earlier versions, and I have no trouble getting it under the nose and around corners - in spite of the bulk of the razor, the head is remarkably maneuverable.  The setting indicators appear to be laser-engraved or maybe even inlaid in the case of the "zero" mark, and against the gold background of the MC are actually fairly hard to see.  That said, it's probably the best adjustable I've ever used as far as shaving quality, and in spite of reported quirks is my #1 go-to razor now.  The Master Collection Edition that I own may be slightly different than the standard 2021, but I believe they are substantially similar.

LOOT, Frl2 and AQU like this post
Something wild is loose


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)