Yaqi Single Edge AC style

And vice versa, where is your proof there has been no impact?

Further, irrespective of a deleterious volume impact on BlackLand, by its very existence, any sales of each of these units have their origin in Shane's intellectual property and thus a fee is rightly owed BlackLand on each sale.

So let's start where the absolute numbers can be determined: how many sales have been made of these pirated designs?

Would be good to hear from Blackland Razors as he the aggrieved party

Shane has already weighed in earlier in this thread and on another forum...

Yes. Of course he’s not happy.
But being a thoroughbred does not waste time on unnecessary matters.

... abuses of intellectual property law ... outright theft.

Big words.

I'm not a lawyer.
But, FWIK ideas or shapes can not have copywrigth.
Product can, with specs.

But here they are different.
As Homelike Shaving before, with 2020 Bulava handle.
Both are designed for common heads, not just for one.



I think the customer is different.
If I buy Blackland, I'll not buy Yaqi or DScosmetics or Boti ... etc.
And viceversa. They play a different game.

I am a lawyer and among other things I managed the Intellectual Property portfolio for a multi-billion dollar corporation and I would say that you're wrong about there not being IP protection for "ideas and shapes", or what may be called design elements.  You're also wrong when you say that "thoroughbreds" don't care about their ideas, investment and work when it's stolen by others.  They care a lot.  The problem is what can they do about it.  Intellectual Property laws vary around the world but most advanced economies/legal systems have similar principles.  The challenge for many IP owners is that there is no IP police that run around enforcing IP laws and rights and punishing bad actors.  That is left up to the IP owners and any kind of infringement and enforcement action is very expensive.  The rights owner has to hire their own team of lawyers to establish that they have valid and subsisting rights and that the pirate breached them.  In every jurisdiction where they want to enforce their rights around the world.  Expensive.  This kind of legal work isn't done by Sol Goodman/Jimmy McGill out of their strip mall law office - this is big firm or IP boutique type of work at a big price tag.  A small business like Blackland just doesn't have the resources to undertake this kind of legal action and the economics wouldn't make sense.  No lawyer would take the work on contingency either because again, a percentage of the total prize wouldn't even come close to the cost of the legal work, heck the total prize probably wouldn't either.  Then there is the problem of the pirate being offshore based in a country that doesn't respect IP rights of any kind.  You'd never get them into a court of competent jurisdiction let alone get them to pay a judgement.  The whole process would be an exercise in frustration and wealth destruction from start to finish.  Thats why you don't hear much from people like Shane.  Its pointless.  And thats why it's up to us, the customers/potential customers to make a choice of where we stand on knockoffs.  If you don't like seeing creative people getting ripped off, and they are being ripped off - every single knockoff sold can be counted as a sale they didn't get, at least thats how the courts would view it - then don't buy the knockoffs and tell the vendors that sell them that you dont support the sale of knockoffs and stop buying anything from them. It's disrespectful and you absolutely are taking food out of the mouths of the IP owners' children.  You're never going to stop it because of the offshore aspect and the the costs I just discussed above but at least you won't be part of the problem.

... abuses of intellectual property law ... outright theft.

Big words.

I'm not a lawyer.
But, FWIK ideas or shapes can not have copywrigth.
Product can, with specs.

But here they are different.
As Homelike Shaving before, with 2020 Bulava handle.
Both are designed for common heads, not just for one.



I think the customer is different.
If I buy Blackland, I'll not buy Yaqi or DScosmetics or Boti ... etc.
And viceversa. They play a different game.

I am a lawyer and among other things I managed the Intellectual Property portfolio for a multi-billion dollar corporation and I would say that you're wrong about there not being IP protection for "ideas and shapes", or what may be called design elements.  You're also wrong when you say that "thoroughbreds" don't care about their ideas, investment and work when it's stolen by others.  They care a lot.  The problem is what can they do about it.  Intellectual Property laws vary around the world but most advanced economies/legal systems have similar principles.  The challenge for many IP owners is that there is no IP police that run around enforcing IP laws and rights and punishing bad actors.  That is left up to the IP owners and any kind of infringement and enforcement action is very expensive.  The rights owner has to hire their own team of lawyers to establish that they have valid and subsisting rights and that the pirate breached them.  In every jurisdiction where they want to enforce their rights around the world.  Expensive.  This kind of legal work isn't done by Sol Goodman/Jimmy McGill out of their strip mall law office - this is big firm or IP boutique type of work at a big price tag.  A small business like Blackland just doesn't have the resources to undertake this kind of legal action and the economics wouldn't make sense.  No lawyer would take the work on contingency either because again, a percentage of the total prize wouldn't even come close to the cost of the legal work, heck the total prize probably wouldn't either.  Then there is the problem of the pirate being offshore based in a country that doesn't respect IP rights of any kind.  You'd never get them into a court of competent jurisdiction let alone get them to pay a judgement.  The whole process would be an exercise in frustration and wealth destruction from start to finish.  Thats why you don't hear much from people like Shane.  Its pointless.  And thats why it's up to us, the customers/potential customers to make a choice of where we stand on knockoffs.  If you don't like seeing creative people getting ripped off, and they are being ripped off - every single knockoff sold can be counted as a sale they didn't get, at least thats how the courts would view it - then don't buy the knockoffs and tell the vendors that sell them that you dont support the sale of knockoffs and stop buying anything from them. It's disrespectful and you absolutely are taking food out of the mouths of the IP owners' children.  You're never going to stop it because of the offshore aspect and the the costs I just discussed above but at least you won't be part of the problem.

Thank you for your good counsel and advocacy on behalf of value creators.

While my leanings decidedly left, those creating value in the consumer discretionary market deserve to have their creations protected for a reasonable period of time. The opinions in this thread expressing casual and callous disregard for the inherent rights of man has proved surprising in a disappointing manner. Of course this a public forum and people entitled to disclose their opinions but am frankly shocked that educated Westerners would be so inclined and, moreso, comfortable publicly broadcasting such. Unfortunately, when a man proudly and publicly proclaims who he is and boasts of his values, one best advised to believe him....

Fully accepting many laws are brazenly constructed to protect the status quo benefitting the elite at the expense of the producers, under any definition, the act of stealing another's idea in order to commercially profit is morally reprehensible. Accepting that some are in favour of doing this to others, would stand as steadfast in their defence were the tables turned; this is a foundation of Western Civilization and what entailed in the Rule of Law. 

Shall pray those defending the victimization of others for ill-gotten gain reconsider their stance and amend their outlook on piracy specifically as well as morality and life generally. Victimizing others is not a sustainable long term strategy; healthy societies cannot be maintained on the basis of amorality and criminality.  In earlier days pirates were dealt with severely and publicly as an admonition to others; there was wisdom in that policy.

I agree. One of the problems with the practical inability to monetize, protect and defend one’s creativity and innovation is that there will be less creativity and innovation. That is unfortunate. It’s also unfortunate that despite many countries recognizing IP rights and having a legal framework for protecting and defending them, it’s prohibitively expensive to do so for all but those IP owners with very deep pockets. It’s up to the buyers to decide where they stand.

Thank you for your expertise.
Let me gently abuse of your patience again, with three questions.

I am a lawyer and among other things I managed the Intellectual Property portfolio for a multi-billion dollar corporation and I would say that you're wrong about there not being IP protection for "ideas and shapes", or what may be called design elements.

In your opinion, why IP owners don't protect themselves with a Design Patent to prevent?

And thats why it's up to us, the customers / potential customers to make a choice of where we stand on knockoffs.

In this specific case, being the original handle designed only for that specific head, can you consider the version designed for maximum compatibility a knockoff?

You're never going to stop it because of the offshore aspect and the the costs I just discussed above but at least you won't be part of the problem.

Since localization and costs are a primary factor for the producer, is it not equally true for the buyer?


Caveat.
I’m not a collector.
I’m not interested in the name of the product.
I definitely won’t buy these new models.
I tried the original Blackbird without finding it to my liking.

... but I still consider the two markets completely disconnected.
If not for others, this is true for me.

Hi ischiapp , I’ll try to answer your questions 

1. Why don’t IP owners file design patents? First I can’t say whether they do or don’t in general. It would depend on an individual case. In some cases an IP owner may think it’s not worth the expense because they feel they couldn’t afford to defend or enforce it. I think it’s always a good idea to apply for patent protection even if it’s to protect against the possibility that an infringing party goes to the step of applying for a patent and then prevents the originator from selling their own creation. 

2. Arguments could be made either way. If the third party handle incorporated some/all of the novel elements of the original then, there is possibly a stronger case for infringement. 

3. I don’t think that argument would succeed. Local vs overseas manufacturing costs don’t factor into whether something infringes IP rights. 

People can get inflamed over these sorts of things. I guess it’s like sports- you can only have true competition when everyone plays by the rules.

I guess it’s like sports - you can only have true competition when everyone plays by the rules.

I see. And I’d love to.

But from my point of view (vey low), the market has been the same since ancient Rome.
Caveat emptor.

I guess it’s like sports - you can only have true competition when everyone plays by the rules.

I see. And I’d love to.

But from my point of view (vey low), the market has been the same since ancient Rome.
Caveat emptor.

Sure, but the law of the jungle isn’t very nice. As rational beings humans figured out that if we provided a limited amount of protection to allow inventors to profit from their inventions that there was more inventions and innovations and society was net better off compared to not protecting inventors rights. It’s not a perfect system but you only have to compare jurisdictions that respect and protect rights to those that don’t to see which is better.