#131

Super Moderator
San Diego, Cal., USA
(03-26-2016, 10:22 PM)andrewjs18 Wrote:
(03-26-2016, 10:19 PM)NeoXerxes Wrote: Well that's interesting Big Grin. Congrats to DFS.

thanks.  everyone who visits and posts on the site makes it successful.  so, really, I'm thanking everyone that spends time here!

You mean there are people who don't? Confused

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#132

Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
(03-26-2016, 11:16 PM)Freddy Wrote:
(03-26-2016, 10:22 PM)andrewjs18 Wrote:
(03-26-2016, 10:19 PM)NeoXerxes Wrote: Well that's interesting Big Grin. Congrats to DFS.

thanks.  everyone who visits and posts on the site makes it successful.  so, really, I'm thanking everyone that spends time here!

You mean there are people who don't? Confused

if they don't, they should!

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Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
#133

Super Moderator
San Diego, Cal., USA
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2016, 11:35 PM by Freddy.)
(03-26-2016, 11:17 PM)andrewjs18 Wrote:
(03-26-2016, 11:16 PM)Freddy Wrote:
(03-26-2016, 10:22 PM)andrewjs18 Wrote: thanks.  everyone who visits and posts on the site makes it successful.  so, really, I'm thanking everyone that spends time here!

You mean there are people who don't? Confused

if they don't, they should!

You have that right! Happy2

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#134
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2016, 11:33 PM by grim.)
What would be really interesting is to see true market statistics.  The problem with all most articles on the Internet is that they are written by or far someone with a vested interest in selling you something. You can't believe everything you read because someone has their hand out saying: "Give me your money". An independent analysis would be nice. I think there is one such thing dated April, 2015 but it will cost your $4,500 to read it.  Sad However, there is a short summary with a few interesting items. Follow the links. This is about those who do NOT use an electric razor. Quote:

"Europe represents the largest market worldwide"

Weekly shaving frequency



Germany 5.6
USA 5.2
...
India 1.9


Growth projections through 2020?  DISPOSABLE Razors rules

Here is another report for a mere $2500. A highlight

Market challenge
Increase in sales of electric shavers


BTW, concerning soap hoarding, I read the other day elsewhere where someone bought 24 sticks of Arko. That's $30 on Amazon. How long will it take to go through 30 soap sticks?  And yet the person was continuing to buy more and more other brands. That's my point, the buying of a consumable product that you simply will never use. I just don't get that. It's like buying tires to stash in your garage because someday you might need them but in 10 years, they will dry rot and in the intervening years newer technology will make the current tires obsolete.

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#135

Super Moderator
San Diego, Cal., USA
(03-26-2016, 11:27 PM)grim Wrote: What would be really interesting is to see true market statistics.  The problem with all most articles on the Internet is that they are written by or far someone with a vested interest in selling you something. You can't believe everything you read because someone has their hand out saying: "Give me your money". An independent analysis would be nice. I think there is one such thing dated April, 2015 but it will cost your $4,500 to read it.  Sad However, there is a short summary with a few interesting items. Follow the links. This is about those who do NOT use an electric razor. Quote:

"Europe represents the largest market worldwide"

Weekly shaving frequency



Germany 5.6
USA 5.2
...
India 1.9


Growth projections through 2020?  DISPOSABLE Razors rules

Here is another report for a mere $2500. A highlight

Market challenge
Increase in sales of electric shavers


BTW, concerning soap hoarding, I read the other day elsewhere where someone bought 24 sticks of Arko. That's $30 on Amazon. How long will it take to go through 30 soap sticks?  And yet the person was continuing to buy more and more other brands. That's my point, the buying of a consumable product that you simply will never use. I just don't get that. It's like buying tires to stash in your garage because someday you might need them but in 10 years, they will dry rot and in the intervening years newer technology will make the current tires obsolete.

Not to mention the car. [Image: laughing-1.gif]

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#136
(03-25-2016, 04:51 PM)grim Wrote: Did you also notice that they don't tell you the actual sales numbers? 1,000% of zero is still zero. I don't know the actual number of razors sold in AOS but given their cost, I suspect the numbers are trivial.
But that is just a guess.

(03-25-2016, 05:34 PM)grim Wrote: Obviously the zero percent of zero is hyperbole. I don't know the actual numbers but suspect they are trivial.

There is no conspiracy but if a company does not release numbers, then how can they be proud of them?

Remember, statistics are easily manipulated. 1,000% of 100 sales in 1000 sales. Thats is nothing.
That is also just a guess.

Based on the above, we can't really conclude anything other than that sales rose substantially, at least percentagewise. The absence of unit sales figures does not imply anything, other than that the company wants to hold that figure close to their vest. Why would they do that? Perhaps P&G are the ones best suited to answer that question.

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#137
(03-26-2016, 10:29 PM)onethinline Wrote: The distinction between a guy who just wants a better-than-cartridges shave and a shaving hobbyist is an important one. A surprising number of guys at my office shave with a brush and DE razor (this in itself is notable, I think). But only a few of them have collected soaps, razors, brushes. I'm certainly the most "hobbyist" among them.
I think that is a very important distinction, and one which is important to keep in mind when promoting traditional wetshaving.  There is nothing wrong at all with being a hobbyist, collector or accumulator, but not everyone will want to go beyond the basics.

Quote:To offer my perspective, and this is based on the "conversions" I've seen among friends and coworkers: cartridges, despite being easy to use, have two big drawbacks: skin problems (for many, at least), and cost. What tends to convince guys to try DE shaving, in my experience, is pointing out that a DE shave resolves irritation and bumps, and costs much less after initial investment.
And likely a closer shave for many men with a safety razor.  From what I have experienced, that is due to the very large number of double edge blades available vs. relatively few cartridges.

Quote:Guys today simply don't know it's there as a viable alternative.
Then how do we let them know that the alternative exists and provide them with some initial information?  Forums are a useful source of information to those just starting out, but most guys won't know to look for them.  I discovered wetshaving forums purely by chance, from a post on a non-shaving related forum.  Even then, I only clicked on the link in the second post made on the subject and for no particular reason.  The Art of Shaving was what really clued me in that there was something more than canned goo and a cartridge razor.  Participating on forums is well and good, but won't do much to reach out to the masses.  We need to move beyond the forums and into other communication channels to be traditional wetshaving Prometheuses.

How about having an informational post here at DFS that is a summary of traditional wetshaving - what is needed, where to buy it, and the basics of how to use it?  it could be a collaborative effort in which the final draft is the post.  We could then reference the link to that post as an introduction for the average man.  A sheet of paper with "How to get a better shave" and a QR code to the link could be posted on comunity bulletin boards (the cork-backed kind, not the online kind), handed out, etc.  If someone wanted to place an ad (usually low cost) in a local free newspaper, that would also work.

Quote:So, the appeal is better, cheaper shaving. That's the core. It helps that we're in a time when many people are attracted to going back to classic, "artisan" ways of doing things. We're more receptive to the idea that an older method can be better. Also, the "cool factor" of shaving with a safety razor, which next to a cartridge seems dangerous and manly (heh), is a real contributor.

Every guy I've talked to who has taken up DE shaving says he enjoys the experience, whereas he used to find it tiresome. That becomes compelling, too. It's like making the argument for cooking at home rather than eating quick take-out food: it's better for you, often less expensive, and much more rewarding. People get that argument.
I think that pretty much sums it up.  Ever since the last recession, still lingering to some extent in many places, people have become fed up with poor quality crap sold at inflated prices.  The possibility of luxury, high quality, the cool factor and enjoyment, all at a reduced cost, then becomes very appealing.

So now that we know why the average man should join us, what are we going to do about it?

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#138

That Bald Guy with the Big Beard
Bishop, CA
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2016, 07:06 PM by BadDad.)
I think part of the problem of introducing new people to the art is lack of exposure. Most of us came to wet shaving through searches. But the fact is, most of us were already looking for an alternative to the carts and cans when we stumble upon a random forum post, and went off from there. If we weren;t already looking for alternatives shaving products, we likely would not have ended up here.

That is what keeps the "good enough" crowd in their cartridge caves. They are experience shaves that satisfy their requirements, and so they aren't looking for alternatives. Without actively looking for a different way, they aren;t likely to stumble across traditonal wet shaving as a viable option.

People are generally of the mentality that if it ain't broken, you shouldn't fix it, and for the largest part of society, cartridge shaving ain't broke, so they simple aren;t looking to fix it. It works for them, so they keep doing it. It isn't a problem, so they aren't looking for a solution. And the truth is, even if we proselytize to those individuals, they won;t be interested. Why go through the elongated process if a can of foam and a cartridge works?

It's like preaching the gospel at an atheist convention. It might not hurt anyone, but the most you're likely to accomplish is some weird looks and some pissed off non-believers...and that's not good for either message...

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-Chris~Head Shaver~
#139
(03-27-2016, 07:05 PM)BadDad Wrote: People are generally of the mentality that if it ain't broken, you shouldn't fix it, and for the largest part of society, cartridge shaving ain't broke, so they simple aren;t looking to fix it. It works for them, so they keep doing it. It isn't a problem, so they aren't looking for a solution. And the truth is, even if we proselytize to those individuals, they won;t be interested. Why go through the elongated process if a can of foam and a cartridge works?

And that about sums it up. That is exactly my point about "good enough". A can of shaving can has a lifespan of ... maybe forever. I have a can maybe 10 years old. The stuff never goes bad. You can find disposable razors, in bulk, for 14 cents. Not everyone uses cartridges.

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#140

Chazz Reinhold HOF
grim Nicely put.

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