Why Should the Average Man Join Us?

AoS isnt staying afloat because of razor sales, they are staying afliat because of peripheral sales. Everything from soaps and Fusion handles to brushes and brush stands are generating profits.

That is exactly what I said. Its fusion handles, blades, and by their own admission selling $25 cans of shaving cream or $60 soaps to executives. Its not safety razors and telling the world that safety razor sales increased 1000% means nothing.

AoS isnt staying afloat because of razor sales, they are staying afliat because of peripheral sales. Everything from soaps and Fusion handles to brushes and brush stands are generating profits.

That is exactly what I said. Its fusion handles, blades, and by their own admission selling $25 cans of shaving cream or $60 soaps to executives. Its not safety razors and telling the world that safety razor sales increased 1000% means nothing.

You are getting way too hung up on AoS. Brushes, hard soaps, bowls, higher quality materials (including safety razors)... What do you think that is? Those are all the trappings of better quality, traditional wet shaving that people are hungry for and paying a premium for what they never realized was there in the first place.

You think 3 day stubble is a trend for its style? Yeah, just like beards were a style in the 1800's because men feared straight razor shaving. 3 day stubble equals not being satisfied with modern carts and electrics in the same way!

AoS and all the explosion of new safety razors, vendors, and forums is offering an answer to that dissatisfaction, filling a gap that carts and cans aren't!

Just to address one point, I'm not sure that 3-day stubble as a style can be entirely attributed to a dissatisfaction with modern carts and electrics. Changes in style may have a variety of causes and correlations.

Not entirely attributable, but no doubt a major factor.

Fair enough mate. That may be true subconsciously. Most of the time, when I am introducing new shavers to the hobby, they aren't really conscious of how terrible their shaves actually are until I point out that shave-related irritation issues aren't normal lol. Most of the mass market trash is truly substandard IMO, but people aren't conscious of that until they are introduced to the alternative.

AoS isnt staying afloat because of razor sales, they are staying afliat because of peripheral sales. Everything from soaps and Fusion handles to brushes and brush stands are generating profits.

That is exactly what I said. Its fusion handles, blades, and by their own admission selling $25 cans of shaving cream or $60 soaps to executives. Its not safety razors and telling the world that safety razor sales increased 1000% means nothing.

No, what you said is that it is an economic indicator of a declining market.

What I said, is that they arent offering razors of their own brand, and that P&G wouldnt continue to open and inveat in new aoS stores if they were operating at a loss, as you suggested.

My point was that their peripheral sales must be generating enough mo.ey to cover overhead, or else they wouldnt exist.

My other point is that AoS is actually a very small fish in this particular pond. Comparatively smaller suppliers, like West Coast having or Connaught, are likely making much more in hardware sale than AoS is, and would, therefor, be a better market indicator.

You are hung up on AoS for some reason. They are not a fair baseline for comparative analysis of a niche market. They are not a niche supplier, and they are not trying to be...they are specifically marketing themselves to an affluent cartridge shaver that wants a fancy handle and a badger brush. Nothing wrong with that, but hardly representative of the hobby...

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I always thought AOS quickly became a sort of Trojan horse for the establishment brands (like P&G) to infiltrate the traditional wet shaving market, stealing customers who might otherwise become traditional wet shavers back to the cartridge market. At the same time as they sell fancy cartridge razors, they offer some niche products (like straight razors) and hard shaving soaps.

On that note, generally speaking, I think the success of mega-brands like P&G leads to a lot of inbreeding in the luxury brands. Take Acqua di Parma for instance. They juxtapose some of the highest quality traditional creams/aftershaves on the market with a high end wooden shaving brush and (SURPRISE!) a suspiciously cheap-looking cartridge razor with a fancy handle. EH?! How is this possible? lol.

Gentlemen, we live in interesting times!

You are getting way too hung up on AoS.  

You are hung up on AoS for some reason.  

I didn't bring up AOS, Len  did several pages back. I quote:

The Art of Shaving claims "sales of safety razors have increased 1,000 percent from 2009 to 2014"

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/20/style/....html?_r=0

A 1,000% increase in safety razor demand in the last five years simply cannot be attributed to 'collectors' or 'hobbyists'. The numbers are exploding and will continue to grow. Why is this?

I am claiming this is a meaningless statistic as the real data is not known. If AOS was proud of that statistic, they would state the exact numbers, Instead its marketspeak.

LOOK, we sold 1,000% more in SALES over FIVE YEARS!!!  JOIN THE CROWD! BUY FROM US!!!

Sorry I was responding to your article, which I find to me marketing, a way for the company to try to convince you to buy something.

You are getting way too hung up on AoS.  

You are hung up on AoS for some reason.  

I didn't bring up AOS, Len  did several pages back. I quote:

The Art of Shaving claims "sales of safety razors have increased 1,000 percent from 2009 to 2014"

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/20/style/....html?_r=0

A 1,000% increase in safety razor demand in the last five years simply cannot be attributed to 'collectors' or 'hobbyists'. The numbers are exploding and will continue to grow. Why is this?

I am claiming this is a meaningless statistic as the real data is not known. If AOS was proud of that statistic, they would state the exact numbers, Instead its marketspeak.

LOOK, we sold 1,000% more in SALES over FIVE YEARS!!!  JOIN THE CROWD! BUY FROM US!!!

Sorry I was responding to your article, which I find to me marketing, a way for the company to try to convince you to buy something.

I didnt say you brought it i said you were hung up. And you do seem to be.

Your entire argument if tradutuinal wetvshaving being a dying market is based on the counter point to lens AoS reference. Not part of your argument, the majority of it.

AoS dies not market to the majority of the segment. Why is it the majority of your argument?

You make excellent points, dont get me wrong. I just think they are inherently flawed because they are based on AoS as a majority player, and they are not a majority player in this particular field...

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Your entire argument if tradutuinal wetvshaving being a dying market is based on the counter point to lens AoS reference.  Not part of your argument, the majority of it.

Then there is confusion here because I never said traditional wet shaving was dying. Actually I believe it's not a bubble, but more static. I know some people are afraid that 4 companies just closed but that happens all the time. Companies come and go. If you look at the Alexa stats, at least for the most popular forum, their stats are dropping. But that bears no relation to the entire market. I believe the  sales are probably stable, and will remain stable with probably 90% of the sales to hobbyists, simply because they buy a massive amount of products, both hardware and software, than the can ever truly use.

If I were selling these products, I would sure hope the hobbyists NEVER left because they buy products far beyond basic needs. The other 10%, which is a guess but could be any number, might not represent a sustainable market. So I believe its a stable market, probably not growing or shrinking in terms of population, but sales growth is coming from those of us who buy things we do not need for daily life.