Why Should the Average Man Join Us?

Where did you get this information?  While it would be amazing to have a "new" fatboy or redtip etc etc... I find it hard to believe Gillette would ever want to cannibalize their cartridge market especially since they have skin in the game via Art of Shaving.....

Hope it's true though just curious as to where you read this.... Thanks!!  Speaking of Bevel which is now in Target, Len have you tried this?? It's got me curious and for the price I may just have to nab one this weekend.

I think there are quite a few reasons the 'average man' should join us...

nostalgia, wanting to pamper themselves, saving money (assuming they don't go on a spending spree), better shaves, etc., etc...

I think it's quite clear to most of us that wet shaving is on the rise.

You hit it right on the head, assuming they don't  go on a spending spree, lol....That can make it more expensive than cart and goo, big time.

I think almost everyone does, unless they're on a very tight budget.  with the shaving products that dominate the shelves at big box stores like cartridges, canned shaving cream, foam and gel, they don't offer up a ton of choices out there like wet shaving does.

speaking as someone who is only 29, I still view shaving as a chore, but a more enjoyable chore with wet shaving than with a cartridge and canned gel.

I understand. When I was your age, I didn't really enjoyed as much as I do in retirement. Got you by 20 years youngster, lol....

You hit it right on the head, assuming they don't  go on a spending spree, lol....That can make it more expensive than cart and goo, big time.

I think almost everyone does, unless they're on a very tight budget.  with the shaving products that dominate the shelves at big box stores like cartridges, canned shaving cream, foam and gel, they don't offer up a ton of choices out there like wet shaving does.

speaking as someone who is only 29, I still view shaving as a chore, but a more enjoyable chore with wet shaving than with a cartridge and canned gel.

I understand.  When I was your age, I didn't really enjoyed as much as I do in retirement.  Got you by 20 years youngster, lol....

I'm still a long way off from retirement.

I think almost everyone does, unless they're on a very tight budget.  with the shaving products that dominate the shelves at big box stores like cartridges, canned shaving cream, foam and gel, they don't offer up a ton of choices out there like wet shaving does.

speaking as someone who is only 29, I still view shaving as a chore, but a more enjoyable chore with wet shaving than with a cartridge and canned gel.

I understand.  When I was your age, I didn't really enjoyed as much as I do in retirement.  Got you by 20 years youngster, lol....

I'm still a long way off from retirement.  

You'll get there fast, trust me. Time just fly.

The Art of Shaving claims "sales of safety razors have increased 1,000 percent from 2009 to 2014"

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/20/style/....html?_r=0

A 1,000% increase in safety razor demand in the last five years simply cannot be attributed to 'collectors' or 'hobbyists'.

Did you also notice that they don't tell you the actual sales numbers? 1,000% of zero is still zero. I don't know the actual number of razors sold in AOS but given their cost, I suspect the numbers are trivial. So if sales jumped from 1,000/year to 10,000/year, that still zero in the "big scheme" of things.

Also don't forget AOS (read Gillete read P&G) WANTS you to buy something. It's not exactly unbiased. They WANT you to think something is going on. Lets bring an unbiased (I hope they are  unbiased) statistics in it. See http://www.statista.com/topics/1811/mens...in-the-us/

Average amount of money spent on shaving by men per  year in 2014? $18.69. AOS is a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket.

How about razors? http://www.statista.com/statistics/27651...in-the-us/ 2015. AOS doesn't even register. Micro one touch does.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal may be interesting, but what they hide is vital. Notwithstanding that your source is suspect, if your statistics are true that men spend less than $20/year on shaving and your second reference states that the vast majority of users are using Fusions, Mach 3s and the like is also true, then how can both of those statistics be true? Go to Amazon and check the prices of cartridges for those razors. Those guys are making a cartridge last an awfully long time.

Further, your own source in another link states that:

"The statistic shows men's grooming sales in the United States in 2014, by channel. In that year, men's shaving cream generated approximately 490 billion U.S. dollars from the multi-outlet channel in the United States. Total multi-outlet sales of the men's grooming market in the United States amounted to approximately 2.45 billion U.S. dollars."

Sentence 1 clearly contradicts sentence 2 yes? Are you sure this site's statistics are a reliable source? You know what they say. There are lies, d*** lies and statistics. Don't forget that statistics show that 87.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Statistics are like bikinis.  What they reveal may be interesting, but what they hide is vital.  Notwithstanding that your source is suspect, if your statistics are true that men spend less than $20/year on shaving and your second reference states that the vast majority of users are using Fusions, Mach 3s and the like is also true, then how can both of those statistics be true?   Go to Amazon and check the prices of cartridges for those razors.  Those guys are making a cartridge last an awfully long time.

Further, your own source in another link states that:

"The statistic shows men's grooming sales in the United States in 2014, by channel. In that year, men's shaving cream generated approximately 490 billion U.S. dollars from the multi-outlet channel in the United States.  Total multi-outlet sales of the men's grooming market in the United States amounted to approximately 2.45 billion U.S. dollars."

Sentence 1 clearly contradicts sentence 2 yes?   Are you sure this site's statistics are a reliable source?   You know what they say.  There are lies, d*** lies and statistics.  Don't forget that statistics show that 87.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I think the $18/year is suspect. I have no idea who statistics is or where they get their data, but they appear far more unbiased than a company trying to sell you goods.

Here is the thing about the NY Times article. AOS (i.e., P&G) wants to sell you stuff. The actual numbers don't matter. Don't get hung up on numbers. Now reread the article. It clearly says Gillette sold 3,500,000 razors and 32,000,000 blades in a WWI contract. Real numbers. Now AOS says they increased their sales 1000 %. AOS WANTS you to buy. Here is what they are saying:

LOOK AT US. WE ARE POPULAR!!  Are razor sales increased 1000% in 5 years!!! WOOT!!! THATS AMAZING!

What they are not telling you are the real numbers. You don't know if sales went from 20 to 200 per year or from 1,000,000 to 10,000,000 per year. So which one do you think? If they were proud of their sales, don't you think they would say - HEY, OUR SALES went from 1M to 10M in 5 years, or is it better to say ...

WE INCREASED SALES BY a WHOPPING 1,000%.   Its all marketing. GIVE ME YOUR MONEY.

So how about those AOS stores? Yep, we got one. It sure is pretty. During the holidays, nobody was in it. Many people milling around the Mall but very few actually entered. I really wonder how they stay in business and suspect its NOT from razor sales. Maybe the Fusion handles. Maybe Fusion shavers using AOS cream. Here is a 5 year old article clearly saying it comes from Profusion blade sales. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-procte...LE20100513

"Launching the blades at The Art of Shaving helped P&G get the attention of affluent professional men who typically shave before heading to work each day -- and can afford items like $55 shaving brushes made with badger hair. ... The blade cartridges are "selling extremely well," ...  A $40 set at The Art of Shaving has eight Fusion ProGlide blades packed alongside trial sized bottles of the chain's pre-shave oil, shaving cream and after-shave balm and a badger hair brush."

I strongly suspect their sales come from exactly what it says, affluent men buy profusion products, in including their fancy handles, and the AOS shaving cream, not for traditional safety razors.

From 2013, http://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/...rt-shaving analysis of the social media aspect of AOS, social media play is minimal.  

"As a social media consumer insight analyst, of course I was compelled to learn more about the brand and, in particular, how its social media sentiment was trending among discriminating male and female skincare product customers, as well as the underlying motivational consumer drivers.  ... despite the brand’s enviable distribution outlets (it’s carried in hundreds of Macy’s stores and specialty chains like Sephora, in addition to maintaining over 80 standalone stores), it was surprising to find such a low annual volume of social conversations—less than 11K mentions.  with a refined niche market and the elite P&G prestige brand status, I certainly expected more social discourse."  - See more at: http://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/...UK18G.dpuf-

This jives with personal observation. I am surprised these stores survive. Maybe the are loss leaders. As I mentioned above, the 20 and 30 something fad of the 3 day stubble being fashionable is bound to hurt sales reflected here: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1214733560...1668712042 "... overall razor and blade sales have been declining in recent years as well, in part because of broader social trends like the greater acceptance of stubble and beards in the workplace."

But if you don't believe AOS is probably a blip on the screen, check out the 2015 P&G annual report. Try to find ONE, just one comment about AOS. There isn't any. 10% of net sales comes from Gillette. There is much discussion of cartridge razors. Zero discussion of safety razors.

If you can find the actual and true sales number for AOS and see the breakdown between gillette Fusion products and safety razors, please post. I suspect AOS might be a hedge bet "in case" traditional wet shaving becomes more popular and in the meantime, they are doing exactly what they said above, selling fancy fusion handles and their house brand shaving cream to affluent businessmen.

I don't want people to settle for being average. To be here I think you must be better.

DFS is ...

At the moment, AoS isnt offering a "house brand" safety razor, that I am aware of. So of course youa arent seeing sales figures for them...

AoS isnt staying afloat because of razor sales, they are staying afliat because of peripheral sales. Everything from soaps and Fusion handles to brushes and brush stands are generating profits. Even a company the size of P&G cant float profit losses for very long, so the very fact that their presence is expanding rather than diminishing shows market growth.

I think the biggest problem your arguments is that you are focusing on only 1 aspect of the market strategy for AoS at a time, and 1 facet cannot tell the whole story. Clearly, if the entire 80+ chain of AoS stores were losing annually, their numbers would not be increasing. You dont invest more money in a losing market. At least not if you want to stay in business...

The other thjng I want to mention is pretty simple...AoS and P&G are not the sum total of the TWS economy. In fact, I would be willing to bet that they generate less revenue on traditional gear(brushes, de blades, puck soaps, lather bowls, etc) than a much newer company such as West Coast Shaving. For a company the size of P&G and Gillette, those products are bonus sales. They are point of sale add-on items, not the driving force of their profits, as opposed to a company like WCS that relies on selling these producta to stay alive.

At the end of the day, a statistical market analysis of medium-sized specialty retailers would be a much more telling way go analyze the health and growth of the TWS economy... We have already established this is a niche hobby, so analyzing a main stream cosmetic manufacturer as a baseline is going to provide flawed results...

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Honestly, it'd be great if we could get people in here by really making it crystal clear to them that the quality of their shaves would improve. That is the majority of the reason I left cartridge razor shaving. I got sick of a cartridge lasting me a week, and giving me terrible shaves. I decided to go to Dollar Shave Club as a result because I figured, well if I'm going to get crappy shaves I might as well not pay much. Subsequently I started hearing about wet shaving here and there and started investigating it and realized that people using the safety razors and straights weren't just doing so for value, but the shave quality was great and they no longer had razor bumps, irritation, nicks, cuts, etc. This was all true once I mastered safety razor and even straight razor (temporarily) technique. The shaves were TREMENDOUS!

Its hard though, to put this hobby into words because so many people were like I was once, and just absolutely hate shaving and can't imagine it being anything more than a necessary evil. I really do believe that if you could prove to men that they would get their money's worth, and wouldn't be throwing away 6$ cartridges every week and their shaves would be enjoyable, that would be the key to expanding the hobby. Perhaps I'm going to start buying some people in my life gift sets and give them some tips/tricks and see how that works out.

...the choices are staggering...straight razors, safety razors, all manner of cartridge razors, single edge, double edge, wolfman, Above the tie, electric...kick starter last year that employed a laser beam to remove your whiskers...

Sure the big guys are going to get involved but not because they see their cart business going away and want to be in on the ground floor but rather, because they see an opportunity for profit.  They'll offer products in all sub-categories of shaving...

I think the space where the big guys will really shine is making a cheap, comfortable and efficient safety razor like some form of plastic as-d2 that they can market to the millions of men around the world who have limited resources but still want a close comfortable shave.  Volume is where those companies make their money and regardless of the "explosion" of the high end TWS market, (yes we're high end) there just aren't enough of us to satisfy the Proctor & Gambles of the world.

Great points, Marko.
I know your example was just that, but I'm not exactly sure how much of an economic incentive a "plastic as-d2" would be, given the low cost of DE blades, and the high cost of disposable plastic carts. But yeah, if demand for a low-end decent DE razor would be significant enough, then it would make sense to produce it.
(Btw, as you might already know, there's already a plastic DE razor available: the Wilkinson Sword. It's barely passable, ime/imo, but surely it could be tweaked/improved.)

I converted my dad back instantly with a Christmas package with the best new SE that I know of. This is a guy that started out with DE's and injectors back in the day, switched to disposables in the 80's and carts in the 90's. All it took was 1 really nice modern package, and he can't stop about how he's getting the best shaves of his life, he's seen the light, and finally enjoys shaving. A good quality package with some instructional primers works wonders!