The Next Big Breakthrough?

Your game rocks.  I think every artisan, vendor or what have you in the wet shaving space needs to ask themselves what their goals really are and what is actually doable.  Do you want to be the next fortune 500 company of wet shaving?  Do you like a nice side gig?  Or something in between.  I listened to a great podcast from Art of Charm recently where they did a reverse interview of the AoC founder and I found it very interesting.  One of the points he made is that many people running side hustles (as they call them) prematurely quit their day job (the money maker) for all the wrong reasons.  Its an older episode but still made a lot of sense in the context of wet shaving artisans and whether or not they can ever make this their primary and sole occupation.

https://theartofcharm.com/podcast-episod...isode-572/

That podcast sounds awesome. I'll check it out while I'm working in the scent cave tonight. I'm currently working on a plan to go full-time with Chatillon Lux, but the good thing is that I can still do freelance work in the ad world in order to not have to be too dependent on sales and continue to be able to invest in growth and new products.

Also, I was mainly being facetious about my ad game, but it does raise a good point. The old methods of advertising are not really effective in the information age. People seek out information, so successful brands are often authentic and genuine, showing how they can fit the customer's lifestyle, not change it. It's challenging, but challenges are fun.

Shawn, a huge part of what makes products like yours (Chatillon Lux), Rod’s and Mandy’s Stirling Soap Co., and Peter’s Desmond’s Barrow so good for me is the personal contact, either through actually meeting and talking with you in person or through PM’s and e-mails, or just your posting here on DFS.  (I would include others in that last category, as well, such as GroomingDept and Barrister_N_Mann, among others.). Not only are your products superb but understanding the underlying “why” a product is what it is adds to its allure for me.  I wish there was a way for you folks to do that on a larger scale.

Freddy I totally agree with you. I too really value the contact they I'm able to have with the artisans to just discuss their products and their inspirations and their plans. I know its hard for the artisans to manage that kind of access and it also comes with a degree of risk - some folks are just so easily offended these days but it really adds something. I really enjoy all of the artisans you mentioned but I have to say that since Will of Barrister_N_Mann stepped back from social media. I've felt as if the brand has become more distant - don't get me wrong, I still love the products but I just miss the interaction with Will and it translates into how I perceive the brand. I certainly get Will's rationale for doing what he did but I hope that once things calm down he will be back - I have seen him becoming more active recently which I see as a good sign. Like I said, I think at least in theory I can understand the situation, for example I've seen posts saying that James Dufour, aka Wolfman doesn't respond to emails. Well, imagine the whole world wants your product and they want it faster and cheaper but just as high quality as before. I have no idea how many emails he must get but I'm getting a headache just thinking about it. Do you answer them in order? Just some of them? How about none of them? Thats what I'd do because it would be most fair.

The old ways won't work anymore and I pray we never see Stirling Soap, Barrister and Mann or Chatillon Lux in Wal Mart. Even the big guys guys are having trouble with the new realities of retail. In Canada Sears recently went bankrupt - they've been around my entire life and I'm almost 60! The bankruptcy was orchestrated and they made sure to clean out the pensions for 20,000 employees first but the bottom line was they couldn't keep doing what they had been doing. It wasn't working anymore. I think the model being followed by the wet shaving artisans and vendors is the future and its simply a matter of scaling up when required. Why have brick and mortar?

Sorry for the rant and I hope I'm not coming across as negative because on the contrary, I'm excited thinking about the fact that the wet shaving retail/sales world is actually the cutting edge of where retail is going and that we are all part of a grand experiment that I'm betting is going to work out and grow and become the new normal. What a blast right?
Marko

Shawn, a huge part of what makes products like yours (Chatillon Lux), Rod’s and Mandy’s Stirling Soap Co., and Peter’s Desmond’s Barrow so good for me is the personal contact, either through actually meeting and talking with you in person or through PM’s and e-mails, or just your posting here on DFS.  (I would include others in that last category, as well, such as GroomingDept and Barrister_N_Mann, among others.). Not only are your products superb but understanding the underlying “why” a product is what it is adds to its allure for me.  I wish there was a way for you folks to do that on a larger scale.

Freddy speaks to a developing trend in retail. Increasingly, what separates value good from a premium good is the customer experience. Yes, the product itself has to be good - but that is a pre-requisite and is no longer sufficient. Great customer service is a big part of that canvas, but the feeling of "community" or "exclusivity" can drive that experience too - the story of every piece of "unobtainium".

Your game rocks.  I think every artisan, vendor or what have you in the wet shaving space needs to ask themselves what their goals really are and what is actually doable.  Do you want to be the next fortune 500 company of wet shaving?  Do you like a nice side gig?  Or something in between.  I listened to a great podcast from Art of Charm recently where they did a reverse interview of the AoC founder and I found it very interesting.  One of the points he made is that many people running side hustles (as they call them) prematurely quit their day job (the money maker) for all the wrong reasons.  Its an older episode but still made a lot of sense in the context of wet shaving artisans and whether or not they can ever make this their primary and sole occupation.

https://theartofcharm.com/podcast-episod...isode-572/

Totally agree with Marko, It is incredibly important to create a clear proposition / goal.

Perhaps another angle to think about. Recent data suggest that companies have geared themselves towards targeting the "middle" market (JC Penney, Sears) are broadly doing less well, than those playing solidly in the value or premium segments. I recently had a lecture (currently in business school) which talked about changing consumer behavior, and was shocked at how accurately it portrayed my own personal buying habits.

While I do have some purchasing power, I prefer discount / "private label" items on most things. However, on the occasion, I will splurge on a luxury good. So, I could be eating instant ramen noodles for seven days a week, but the next moment I will buy a Paradigm 17-4.

Along with the proposition of being in the value or premium segments comes a whole lot of operational and financial optimization decisions that are likely beyond the scope of this thread. But what do I know... I am just a student...

My nephew is your age and I'm always fascinated listening to his generation about this exact thing. I pay Comcast (my wife calls them Nazicast for good reason) a large monthly fee for internet/cable. He has totally cut the cord cable wise and only buys what he wants to watch through Netfilix/Hulu etc. The purchasing habits are WAY different, and in a lot of ways a lot smarter than mine are (I'm an ancient 47 years old to him).

Shawn, a huge part of what makes products like yours (Chatillon Lux), Rod’s and Mandy’s Stirling Soap Co., and Peter’s Desmond’s Barrow so good for me is the personal contact, either through actually meeting and talking with you in person or through PM’s and e-mails, or just your posting here on DFS.  (I would include others in that last category, as well, such as GroomingDept and Barrister_N_Mann, among others.). Not only are your products superb but understanding the underlying “why” a product is what it is adds to its allure for me.  I wish there was a way for you folks to do that on a larger scale.

Freddy speaks to a developing trend in retail. Increasingly, what separates value good from a premium good is the customer experience. Yes, the product itself has to be good - but that is a pre-requisite and is no longer sufficient. Great customer service is a big part of that canvas, but the feeling of "community" or "exclusivity" can drive that experience too - the story of every piece of "unobtainium".

Your game rocks.  I think every artisan, vendor or what have you in the wet shaving space needs to ask themselves what their goals really are and what is actually doable.  Do you want to be the next fortune 500 company of wet shaving?  Do you like a nice side gig?  Or something in between.  I listened to a great podcast from Art of Charm recently where they did a reverse interview of the AoC founder and I found it very interesting.  One of the points he made is that many people running side hustles (as they call them) prematurely quit their day job (the money maker) for all the wrong reasons.  Its an older episode but still made a lot of sense in the context of wet shaving artisans and whether or not they can ever make this their primary and sole occupation.

https://theartofcharm.com/podcast-episod...isode-572/

Totally agree with Marko, It is incredibly important to create a clear proposition / goal.

Perhaps another angle to think about. Recent data suggest that companies have geared themselves towards targeting the "middle" market (JC Penney, Sears) are broadly doing less well, than those playing solidly in the value or premium segments. I recently had a lecture (currently in business school) which talked about changing consumer behavior, and was shocked at how accurately it portrayed my own personal buying habits.

While I do have some purchasing power, I prefer discount / "private label" items on most things. However, on the occasion, I will splurge on a luxury good. So, I could be eating instant ramen noodles for seven days a week, but the next moment I will buy a Paradigm 17-4.

Along with the proposition of being in the value or premium segments comes a whole lot of operational and financial optimization decisions that are likely beyond the scope of this thread. But what do I know... I am just a student...

My nephew is your age and I'm always fascinated listening to his generation about this exact thing.  I pay Comcast (my wife calls them Nazicast for good reason) a large monthly fee for internet/cable.  He has totally cut the cord cable wise and only buys what he wants to watch through Netfilix/Hulu etc.  The purchasing habits are WAY different, and in a lot of ways a lot smarter than mine are (I'm an ancient 47 years old to him).

Dan, I both laughed at your response here and agree with where you are coming from.  I "cut the cord" with, in my case Cox Cable (except for Internet access), at age 71, about nine months ago, and absolutely do not regret my decision.  It took some time for me to finally do it but I am happy I did.  Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Acorn TV more than make up for what I typically watch, and at a fraction of the cost of cable television.

That podcast sounds awesome. I'll check it out while I'm working in the scent cave tonight. I'm currently working on a plan to go full-time with Chatillon Lux, but the good thing is that I can still do freelance work in the ad world in order to not have to be too dependent on sales and continue to be able to invest in growth and new products.

Also, I was mainly being facetious about my ad game, but it does raise a good point. The old methods of advertising are not really effective in the information age. People seek out information, so successful brands are often authentic and genuine, showing how they can fit the customer's lifestyle, not change it. It's challenging, but challenges are fun.

Shawn, a huge part of what makes products like yours (Chatillon Lux), Rod’s and Mandy’s Stirling Soap Co., and Peter’s Desmond’s Barrow so good for me is the personal contact, either through actually meeting and talking with you in person or through PM’s and e-mails, or just your posting here on DFS.  (I would include others in that last category, as well, such as GroomingDept and Barrister_N_Mann, among others.). Not only are your products superb but understanding the underlying “why” a product is what it is adds to its allure for me.  I wish there was a way for you folks to do that on a larger scale.

Freddy  I totally agree with you. I too really value the contact they I'm able to have with the artisans to just discuss their products and their inspirations and their plans.  I know its hard for the artisans to manage that kind of access and it also comes with a degree of risk - some folks are just so easily offended these days but it really adds something.  I really enjoy all of the artisans you mentioned but I have to say that since Will of Barrister_N_Mann stepped back from social media. I've felt as if the brand has become more distant - don't get me wrong, I still love the products but I just miss the interaction with Will and it translates into how I perceive the brand.  I certainly get Will's rationale for doing what he did but I hope that once things calm down he will be back - I have seen him becoming more active recently which I see as a good sign.  Like I said, I think at least in theory I can understand the situation, for example I've seen posts saying that James Dufour, aka Wolfman doesn't respond to emails.  Well, imagine the whole world wants your product and they want it faster and cheaper but just as high quality as before.  I have no idea how many emails he must get but I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.  Do you answer them in order?  Just some of them?  How about none of them?  Thats what I'd do because it would be most fair.  

The old ways won't work anymore and I pray we never see Stirling Soap, Barrister and Mann or Chatillon Lux in Wal Mart.  Even the big guys guys are having trouble with the new realities of retail.  In Canada Sears recently went bankrupt - they've been around my entire life and I'm almost 60!  The bankruptcy was orchestrated and they made sure to clean out the pensions for 20,000 employees first but the bottom line was they couldn't keep doing what they had been doing.  It wasn't working anymore.  I think the model being followed by the wet shaving artisans and vendors is the future and its simply a matter of scaling up when required.  Why have brick and mortar?

Sorry for the rant and I hope I'm not coming across as negative because on the contrary, I'm excited thinking about the fact that the wet shaving retail/sales world is actually the cutting edge of where retail is going and that we are all part of a grand experiment that I'm betting is going to work out and grow and become the new normal.  What a blast right?
Marko

Sorry to hear that that's been the effect, Marko. I'm slowly working up to coming back to DFS. I think that my departure from Facebook will probably be permanent, at least as far as the wet shaving world goes (it simply requires too much time and energy to keep track of it all), but I do miss having discussions with the fine folks here from time to time.

EFDan Precisely! Glad I am not alone in my habits.  

Since we have the attention of several artisans here: I know there is a parallel conversation going on elsewhere, but I have my own reservations around this move into fragrances. For several years, I was fortunate to indulge in fragrances, which opened my nose (and eyes) to the wonderful world of scent. However, five years of smelling stuff later, new fragrance releases started smelling like mere derivatives of each other.

BUT, that said... Chatillon Lux's Fourth & Pine is amazing!

And the major perfume houses... are well, rather formidable. I remember that as a new frag-head, I got sucked into the whole Creed thing. The top 10 designer perfumes thing. Then I moved into niche fragrances, and there were so many houses to try. Till this day, the only "indie" bottle I own is Tauer's L'Air du Desert Marocain (which is, by itself, a popularized scent.)

Of course, I could be wrong if the sales analytics show that new customers are being acquired through the fragrance channel: the fragrance market could be much larger than I imagined, and frag-heads more adventurous than I believed.

Lastly, just as an anecdotal point of reference, I will leave with 19 reasons why I don't need another bottle in my life (with more reasons in the drawer back home):

Shawn, a huge part of what makes products like yours (Chatillon Lux), Rod’s and Mandy’s Stirling Soap Co., and Peter’s Desmond’s Barrow so good for me is the personal contact, either through actually meeting and talking with you in person or through PM’s and e-mails, or just your posting here on DFS.  (I would include others in that last category, as well, such as GroomingDept and Barrister_N_Mann, among others.). Not only are your products superb but understanding the underlying “why” a product is what it is adds to its allure for me.  I wish there was a way for you folks to do that on a larger scale.

Freddy  I totally agree with you. I too really value the contact they I'm able to have with the artisans to just discuss their products and their inspirations and their plans.  I know its hard for the artisans to manage that kind of access and it also comes with a degree of risk - some folks are just so easily offended these days but it really adds something.  I really enjoy all of the artisans you mentioned but I have to say that since Will of Barrister_N_Mann stepped back from social media. I've felt as if the brand has become more distant - don't get me wrong, I still love the products but I just miss the interaction with Will and it translates into how I perceive the brand.  I certainly get Will's rationale for doing what he did but I hope that once things calm down he will be back - I have seen him becoming more active recently which I see as a good sign.  Like I said, I think at least in theory I can understand the situation, for example I've seen posts saying that James Dufour, aka Wolfman doesn't respond to emails.  Well, imagine the whole world wants your product and they want it faster and cheaper but just as high quality as before.  I have no idea how many emails he must get but I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.  Do you answer them in order?  Just some of them?  How about none of them?  Thats what I'd do because it would be most fair.  

The old ways won't work anymore and I pray we never see Stirling Soap, Barrister and Mann or Chatillon Lux in Wal Mart.  Even the big guys guys are having trouble with the new realities of retail.  In Canada Sears recently went bankrupt - they've been around my entire life and I'm almost 60!  The bankruptcy was orchestrated and they made sure to clean out the pensions for 20,000 employees first but the bottom line was they couldn't keep doing what they had been doing.  It wasn't working anymore.  I think the model being followed by the wet shaving artisans and vendors is the future and its simply a matter of scaling up when required.  Why have brick and mortar?

Sorry for the rant and I hope I'm not coming across as negative because on the contrary, I'm excited thinking about the fact that the wet shaving retail/sales world is actually the cutting edge of where retail is going and that we are all part of a grand experiment that I'm betting is going to work out and grow and become the new normal.  What a blast right?
Marko

Sorry to hear that that's been the effect, Marko. I'm slowly working up to coming back to DFS.  I think that my departure from Facebook will probably be permanent, at least as far as the wet shaving world goes (it simply requires too much time and energy to keep track of it all), but I do miss having discussions with the fine folks here from time to time.

Hi Will, its nice to hear from you. I meant that comment to be helpful and informative and not as a criticism. I completely understand your actions and I can only imagine some of the stuff that you have been subjected to. There's been a little of that going on on one of the other merchant threads just earlier today. Not to the extent that you had described because it would have been shut down but just some crazy, persistent unpleasant stuff. I've never understood why people feel free to say things online that they'd never in a million years say to your face. I mean apart from the obvious no risk of getting punched in the nose part.

The challenge is how to appear to be as engaged without exposing yourself to the unrelenting needs, wants, demands, complaints etc. of countless people in social media. You could clone yourself like many celebrities do that have "people" to handle their social media accounts. I think you'll figure out a balance that works for everybody and while access is great nobody in their right mind can actually believe that 24/7 access is a good idea.

The $64,000 question I have for the vendors posting/reading in this thread is simply that if they could go back to the day that they made the decision to leap into this field would they change their mind based upon what they know now?

The $64,000 question I have for the vendors posting/reading in this thread is simply that if they could go back to the day that they made the decision to leap into this field would they change their mind based upon what they know now?  

Probably, yes. I imagine that I would have applied to perfume school instead.

Retail is a dead concept moving forward, internet is the future... well until VR shopping takes over and you can see the product through VR but that’ll be years away. I didn’t buy any Xmas gifts at the mall or store front businesses, all online... no parking to deal with, no lineups, add to cart, pay and it’s at my house in a few days.

As for wet shaving I’m just not sure how products can really get much better? Lots of great razors on the market, the soaps and aftershaves are flawless performers. Artisans have really done some amazing things with the hardware and software in the shaving world, things you wouldn’t get with the big companies that make it cheap, high profits and cut costs.

Retail is a dead concept moving forward, internet is the future...  well until VR shopping takes over and you can see the product through VR but that’ll be years away. I didn’t buy any Xmas gifts at the mall or store front businesses, all online... no parking to deal with, no lineups, add to cart, pay and it’s at my house in a few days...

I don't agree completely. Things such as automobiles, furniture, shoes etc., are items that people want to handle, touch, contemplate, etc. A "false positive" in the market is that many people will go to say a Best Buy or a Sears appliance center to see the item only to return home and buy on the Internet. Once these brick & mortar stores are gone many will lament the fact. As well, how will we ever be able to drive if all roads are a continuous stream of UPS & Fedex trucks? Recall that Amazon has yet to show a profit. The emperor indeed has no clothes.