Should it matter?

Ok folks I go back and forth on this one so hear my thoughts and then let's hear your thoughts.

About a month or two ago, a collaboration between a razor maker (which I respect and have two custom razors from) and a somewhat mainstream shaving vendor put out a product I was interested in. The product was well presented and in line with what the razor makers typically produces. I went to the shave forums and youtubers to actually see the product and to get their "collective" opinions on the razor since it was new. I use the word "collective" very loosely because you need to take opinions with lots and lots of salt.

That's where things kinda went off the rails for me since review after review everyone had gotten the item for free. At the time, I actually could not find a review where someone had in fact invested their own money in the product, tried it, and gave it the thumbs down or up. Yes there is the "buyer buy in" element, but wetshavers are a pretty good group that we generally come clean when we make questionable purchases, and collectively laugh at them.

At the end of the day I didn't buy the item because I couldn't get past the "marketing piece" that put their razor in the hands of virtually every YouTuber they could find. Although I respect the razor vendour and would suggest the razor was "that good", based on my own previous purchases, the concept of being sold to in that way in a hobby that generally functions by word of mouth is different? No not really, but for the most part we have been shielded from this since the community has been traditionally small. Times are changing..so....although I've kinda answered my own question, should it really matter that a Youtuber doing a review on an item got it for free and should it carry any weight? For me it did not, but was I being too hasty and dismissive? Providing the disclaimer that they didn't purchase the item doesn't make the situation any better and when giving the item away after the review(if that's what they choose to do) do they go back and purchase? These are the things we really want to know since it speaks to the product or their credibility (hard to give a two thumbs up to a product you wouldn't spend your own money on.).

It always falls back to credibility and objectivity.

As wetshaving becomes bigger and bigger, so will mainstream marketing.

Anywho, my wife thinks I was being a bit of a putz for holding that against them, and I really couldn't articulate why this aggressive marketing was any worse in wetshaving.

For me, the more important part is to check the reviewers history. I'll explain:

I have heard this numerous times in shaving forums: "My mama told me to never say anything unless it's good". While that might be a good thing in lots of cases, I can't imagine why someone would take that stance while reviewing products. There is someone who posts detailed and wonderfully worded reviews of products most over at reddit, but sometimes here as well. I used to read his reviews ( He bought all/most of the products). But found them all to be positive or positive-ish. Then he kind of posted a thread saying he never does negative reviews - he simply omits reviewing that product. After that, I only ready the title of his review - "Okay so he likes it".

I read/watch reviews of reviewers who, every now and then, say a bad thing or two about products. If the reviewer purchased the product, that's may be a plus, but I am fine with 'got it free' reviews as well. Another thing is: some reviewers may always be biased to certain kind of products: he/she may always be positive about artisan products but spiteful towards products from mass market. So it is more about the reviewer - not how he/she got the product, at least for me.

Remember one thing, we often try to justify our purchases. So if 'I' buy a 200 dollar razor, 'I' am subconsciously trying to justify my purchase as 'I' don't want to look like an ass. We had this discussion somewhere in the forums and somebody listed a publication on this kind of confirmation bias. (sorry, don't have the link handy).

If you really expect someone to review a lot of products, and expect him to buy everything in 2017, that person should be you

I personally do not put much stock in reviews from those who have received free products, despite protestations of objectivity. When I was a moderator on another shaving forum, I frequently was offered free items from manufacturers and vendors, including quite expensive razors, with the sometimes unspoken but always obvious implication that I would be expected to write a review of whatever it was. I simply refused to accept the gifts because it would have made me uncomfortable to do so. There was some minor disagreement among the moderators about this issue, but the majority of them quite happily accepted the products and nearly invariably posted positive reviews, and not always with honest disclaimers about the source. I have seen too much research data demonstrating the effects of gifts on one's judgments and opinions to take the word of 'gifted' reviewers, wherever they appear, except with a hefty dose of salt.

For me, the more important part is to check the reviewers history. I'll explain:

I have heard this numerous times in shaving forums: "My mama told me to never say anything unless it's good". While that might be a good thing in lots of cases, I can't imagine why someone would take that stance while reviewing products. There is someone who posts detailed and wonderfully worded reviews of products most over at reddit, but sometimes here as well. I used to read his reviews ( He bought all/most of the products). But found them all to be positive or positive-ish. Then he kind of posted a thread saying he never does negative reviews - he simply omits reviewing that product. After that, I only ready the title of his review - "Okay so he likes it".

I read/watch reviews of reviewers who, every now and then, say a bad thing or two about products. If the reviewer purchased the product, that's may be a plus, but I am fine with 'got it free' reviews as well. Another thing is: some reviewers may always be biased to certain kind of products: he/she may always be positive about artisan products but spiteful towards products from mass market. So it is more about the reviewer - not how he/she got the product, at least for me.

Remember one thing, we often try to justify our purchases. So if 'I' buy a 200 dollar razor, 'I' am subconsciously trying to justify my purchase as 'I' don't want to look like an ass. We had this discussion somewhere in the forums and somebody listed a publication on this kind of confirmation bias. (sorry, don't have the link handy).

If you really expect someone to review a lot of products, and expect him to buy everything in 2017, that person should be you

You make some really good points. There is one distinction that needs to be clarified and that is justification vs. Making an informed decision. At the $200 mark, I want to make sure I'm making an informed decision about item (A) as opposed to going with item (B). This is where many (often based on economics) of us spend a bit of time and thus run into issues of which I have raised. When I'm at the justification, I got the item and I'm making decisions about keeping or putting it up on the buy and sell...

John, churchilllafemme thank you for that honest assessment. I tend to agree-the Latin phrases 'caveat emptor' and 'cum grano salis' always apply when listening to any review.

I know in my own experience that, like @"iamsms", if I pay a nice piece of change for a razor, I tend to be favorably inclined towards it. Otherwise, I would have to admit to myself that I had made a poor investment, or even worse, have bad judgment. I tend to let the initial 'shiny new object' phase pass before getting down to assessing what I really think about the razor. Most times, I'm glad I've gotten them, sometimes, there's a 'clunker'.

To the OP Hardtop01's point: Whenever there's a rabid market, with people who have dozens of expensive razors, or a hundred putters and a dozen sets of irons, or 50 different stainless and carbon-steel pans when they only use a handful, there will be marketing focused on that market. Luckily, most of us are savvy enough to be wary of extravagant claims. OTOH, too much skepticism can lead to rejecting what might be a real innovation.

When I was working with horses and mules a shooting friend mentioned  talk of folks getting together to 'play cowboy' with period firearms. We were all burned out from intense pistol and  Sharps long range competition and soon plywood facades in a trailer created Tombstone and dentists joined working horsemen in bluejeans and Wrangler pearl snap button shirts shooing  SAAs and Italian 73 Winchesters. A writer from a gun magazine, wearing out repeat articles ' is the 45 better than the 9MM. and '.30-06 is it overrated?'  came out and the gold rush was on. SASS issued badges for members and I was among the first 100. It turned into a RENN FAIRE on steak and eggs and soon vendors were coming out with reproductions of rare firearms, period clothing and Mexican made speckled enamel coffeepots on Sutler's row. A mounted group started and I butted heads over the refusal to have a DVM on site and allowing aggressive non period bits A new member called me out for wearing a Arizona punchers crease hat mixed with a centerline rigged Californio saddle and nobody carried a lanyard 7-1/2" Alaskan COLT with black gutta percha grips who wanted to draw fast enough in competition ( dramatically standing with hand pressed on his unloaded Italian made Schofield as if to slap leather.) I had it, it was 1911 competition all over again.  
My saddlemaker walked too. His rigs were in museums, he restored museum pieces and HE COULDN'T GET RECOGNITION with four digit badge BECAUSE HE DIDN'T  give freebie pistol belt rigs or at cost $2000 saddles out to gun and horsey magazine writers or the 10  board of directors.
Sound familiar? to many 'NAMES' in wetshaving expect extras. Yes, some have longstanding friendships or early customer relationships which facilitate strutting a multiple WOLFMAN collection in a thread bemoaning their low production. Many vendors are by nature incredibly generous to the point of being abused and if they don't cough up a brush then a group will have knockoff supersize me LOTUS' made and proclaim to Allah it is the best brush out there and the design not original to any. Don't cough up and you get spit on by people claiming high education and moral high ground while standing on a floor of wet Barbasol.
this is  sometimes predictable aspect of any hobby.
I loaded up my bloodbay working cowhorse Bad Bob that day, tossed my three digit badge at the feet of a director just like Gary Cooper and quoted  B Traven "This is the real world amigos, and you are in it."
YEEHAW!

For the record, I was not speaking about Wolfman and this IS NOT a Wolfman tread.

All end miserably, suddenly and terribly.

Just putting it out there now.

This is a good topic. There are two sides to this and Hardtop01 has articulated one side very well, which I believe to be the overwhelming view of most in this community.

The other side, which is what I believe, is that it isn't a black and white issue. There are absolutely people who whitewash reviews. As well, the folks who put more time, thus having more knowledge about wet shaving, often have a financial interest. The key is determining who has credibility.

Lynn Abrams makes a living, mostly in the straight razor community, in wet shaving. When he endorses a product that he sells, I'm fully confident that everything he says is true. Every product he has recommended that I have purchased has been everything he promised and more.

The challenge is how determine who has credibility. This is even harder for us as the wet shaving community is a genteel for the most part and folks don't want to be critical.

My job requires that I speak with a lot of sales people who have incentive for me to choose them. One of my favorite ways to determine credibility is to ask about the strengths and weaknesses of their offering. If all I hear is how great they are and they can't come up with any weaknesses they lose all credibility. So, when reading or listening to a review I watch to see if it is all positive, or if it is balanced.

My concern in dismissing anyone with a financial interest is that you dismiss those with good input.

Here is an example from this (the DFS) forum.

I've found that the only way to really compare shaving soaps and creams is to shave each side of my face with soaps I want to compare so I can draw conclusions in real time. I used to write some of these up and post them as 'Faceoff' threads. They were popular and had a lot of comments.

I then decided to start a straight razor side business and wind up getting a business account with Col Conk, who is the United States distributor for Dovo straight razors. They included a two ounce sample of their new Naturals shaving cream with my first order. I didn't have high hopes, though was totally impressed with this soap. I have since purchased two scents of the full size cream with matching after shave balm/lotion. While not in the same tier as Castle Forbes and Baum.be, they are some of my favorites due to the scents and matching balm.

I did a 'Face-off' thread comparing this cream with TOBS. I acknowledged that I have a business relationship with them, though no financial interest in this shaving cream. I gave the Col Conk a very slight edge vs TOBS, though outlined where each of them was stronger. I was completely honest in that thread and continue to believe what I said.

No one commented on this thread. Clearly I didn't have credibility with that thread on this forum. A couple of weeks later I did another 'Face-off' with two different soaps. Same thing. No response. Keep in mind that these threads had previously been popular.

While I still do the face-off's because I believe in the method, I don't invest time in writing them up and sharing what I found. I think these threads had been a good way to mix things up on DFS and they created solid discussion. I believe they instantly lost credibility when they shouldn't have.

For the record neither was I. I have exchanged a few emails with James and may have helped with the scalping issue and have yet to buy a razor or even fondled one. The buyer mentioned obviously had a longstanding relationship before WOLFMAN's popularity. I understand and respect it though the buyer hurt James by rubbing everyone's nose with his wolfpack . I'm beginning to understand why longer and thicker razor handles are popular.

I take EVERY review with huge grain of salt. You have to in this hobby.

I just watched a video review the other day, from a "new" straight razor maker, selling $10 stainless steel butter knives on Amazon to unsuspecting, wide eyed, 20-somethings that haven't yet started to grow a beard, but wanting to feel "special" for their retro ideals. Similarly unique individuals...but I digress...

The video review was from "Pro MMA Fighter", whose name was never given, but whose fully bearded face and full head of hair were unknown to this long time MMA fan. This individual proceeded to describe this razor as "the sharpest blade ever", as he ran his thumb along the edge without bleeding profusely, and described the technique of using the included badger brush to wipe the hair and remaing "foam" from his neck after his shave.

The razor never got wet. The "Pro MMA Fighter" clearly had no clue how to use the razor he was holding. He quite obviously never used a straight razor in his life, let alone the badger brush, or any semblance of shaving skill.

But he gave a fantastic, glowing review!

I wept.