Rockwell Razors Business Model

I can't help but wonder if they said the razors were "backordered" that you might feel differently. Many companies, including Amazon, will take your money for backordered items. And this is essentially the same thing.

Amazon does NOT charge until they ship you the product.  This goes for back-order and pre-order items.

Bruce is 100% right here. I've NEVER been charged until my product SHIPPED..... from Amazon. As to being backordered and charged... still unsatisfactory in my mind and I wouldn't do business with someone who adhered to this practice. Further in all honesty, I have been to your website before and all your soap was sold out so I ordered from another maker because frankly, I wasn't going to place and order and wait and wait and wait for soap... if something I want is backordered, someone else either has it or has a fine substitute.

Well, they are having a Q&A coming up. I would suggest you pose this question. I think is important for those wanting to buy one of their razors.

I can't help but wonder if they said the razors were "backordered" that you might feel differently. Many companies, including Amazon, will take your money for backordered items. And this is essentially the same thing.

Amazon does NOT charge until they ship you the product.  This goes for back-order and pre-order items.

Well, damn. I went back and checked my order from last week. I was definitely charged for it, but it was via a 3rd party and on an item from China. Is that against the rules?

Slightly inebriated me felt that $4.50 for a pair of foam nunchucks was too good of a deal to pass up.

I hope that's a fair compromise. Alternatively, there is nothing wrong with waiting until the product actually shows up.

I'm not disagreeing with that statement but I think it's out of touch with the global economy and theretofore, consumer's expectations.  Rightly, or wrongly, most people under the age of 40 haven't had to wait for anything their entire lives.  They EXPECT products they order online to arrive within a few days; in bigger cities, the same day delivery is becoming the norm.  I realize that the products we are dealing with in wet shaving are niche products and many consumers in this market space might not have any problem whatsoever waiting months or even a year for a product.  However, that business practice and consumer attitude is the EXCPETION and far from the rule.  Most businesses today need to ship fast and produce fast to survive, the consumer demands it or their dollars go elsewhere.  I still stand by my statement and belief that asking the consumer to prepay for an item before it's actually produced is merely a way of borrowing money from the consumer at 0% interest and frankly, I can not and will not support a company that adheres to this practice; Especially in this instance with this companies' past history.  Frankly, I think them asking the consumer to do this based upon their track record is somewhat arrogant and disrespectful. I didn't prepay my contractor to build me my second garage, I don't prepay for cattle, in fact, in thinking about this I can't think of any business transaction I've done in the last 4 years where a proprietor asked for money up front before the job was done or the product was delivered.  Had they done so, I would have hired someone else or purchased for someone else.  Rockwell is free to conduct their business as they see fit as are you.  In turn, as a consumer I am also free to lament how wrong I think that approach is and ultimately, other consumers will determine their fate and yours by using their dollars to speak for them.

I actually think you and I agree quite a bit. If there is anything I believe in, it's the power of the consumer. The consumer gets to dictate the terms and gets to decide if a company's practices should continue. If consumers as a community decide they don't want waiting lists or preorders then they have the power to stop them. However, what we are seeing is that the community is, by and large, okay with that system. They are signing up for waiting lists and they are willing to pay in advance for a product. If they weren't, these practices would fall by the wayside and the companies doing them would fail. So it is actually the consumer who drives these practices and allows them to proliferate. They have the power to stop it at any time, but they are choosing instead to support it.

Ultimately, the beauty of capitalism is that it is about choice. In the next couple of years these new startups will have enough capital to keep the shelves stocked and we won't need to have preorders or waiting lists. Each person is well within his rights to wait for such a time to purchase those products without delay.

I really appreciate the opinions in this thread. It's great to hear from consumers and understand alternative viewpoints. I think that this feedback is invaluable and I can assure you that it isn't falling on deaf ears.

Further in all honesty, I have been to your website before and all your soap was sold out so I ordered from another maker because frankly, I wasn't going to place and order and wait and wait and wait for soap... if something I want is backordered, someone else either has it or has a fine substitute.

As much as I hate to hear that, this thread highlights many of the reasons I don't allow pre-orders or backorders.

Gareth from Rockwell here - I thought, after all this speculation, that I'd pop on here and clear the air a bit. Rockwell, like many other small classic shaving companies that started on Kickstarter, does take reservations for our products as we scale up manufacturing. I believe this is an important part of a fair system - it allows people to secure a place in line and guarantee first shipment if they'd like to do so, and if people only want to pay as soon as the razor's in stock, that's also totally an option as well. If people want to question my business model or ethics, I'm comfortable with that. I feel it's extremely important to make it right with every single customer and backer of Rockwell - I feel so strongly about this that I recently shipped several hundred thousand dollars worth of product, for free, to every backer of the Rockwell 6S campaign. If you're interested in reading any more on that, you can check out the guest post that VentureBeat recently had me write on the process of making it right with every single Kickstarter backer. I'm really looking forward to the AMA on DamnFineShave on April 4th, I hope you'll all join in!

I don't buy back ordered products either.

But there is a difference in any case. "Back ordered" means the product actually exists, but Amazon (or whatever 3rd party reseller), did not stock enough, and are just waiting for another shipment from the manufacturer.

If Rockwell used this term, they would be lying, as they are neither a 3rd party reseller, nor does the product exist. Those type of word games coming from a manufacturer would definitely prevent me from ever doing business with them again, no matter how good (or not), their product might be.

Let's be fair, here. Backordered items are products that are temporarily out of stock. This isn't a kickstarter scenario where you're buying into a concept that has yet to be produced. Everything about the 6S exists except the necessary stock to meet the current demand.

I feel it's extremely important to make it right with every single customer and backer of Rockwell - I feel so strongly about this that I recently shipped several hundred thousand dollars worth of product, for free, to every backer of the Rockwell 6S campaign. If you're interested in reading any more on that, you can check out the guest post that VentureBeat recently had me write on the process of making it right with every single Kickstarter backer. I'm really looking forward to the AMA on DamnFineShave on April 4th, I hope you'll all join in!
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This is not meant to come off as me being a senseless jerk however, In fairness had you produced the razor as promised the first time, by your own admission, you wouldn't have had to send out "free product" to the backers of your campaign and can you really call it free product when the first one you sent out was down right dangerous to even use? To me that's not "free product", it's giving people what they paid for and were promised in the first place; it simply took you two times to do it right. From where I sit anyway that's not "free product". Your campaign is well documented as were your struggles. I look forward to the AMA and some of the thoughts others may have. I think I have opined enough about the campaign and your practice of requiring people to"pre-paying" for a razor. As Shane said, the consumer will decide and many of them are deciding this is a perfectly acceptable practice so I must be in the minority here. I look forward to reading the AMA in April.

What he said steeleshaves

They screwed up and made it right. Those were not free products, they were the products those people were promised.

And to tell me they gave them away for free is wrong. They were basically warranty claims to make it right. As you also said, something they should have done from the get go.

Rockwell nor anyone else will get my money before they have a product in hand. They are not kickstarter any more so any chance is between you and them if something goes wrong, they don't come through or the PayPal time has passed.

I hope it works out for people who take a chance but don't complain if it doesn't. They don't have a proven track record up to now, at least from what I've seen.

One last thing...those "free razors" that were sent out are probably the reason there is now a 25 percent price increase on new orders. Not free by any means or any way you look at it.

Lot of word games and double talk here... Sorry, not for me. There are other razors.