Pentasodium Pentetate: Floris & D.R. Harris

Banned in EU this component, and its products.
Some soaps by Floris & D.R. Harris.
Found prone to CMR toxicity.
Category 1B.

Gentlemen Style FB

Pentesodium pentetate is a chelating agent that helps with lathering in hard water. It has been used in a variety of soaps, shampoos, and other cosmetics.

Effective today, December 1, 2023, the EU has banned the use of this chemical. It is not currently banned in the UK or USA. While I cannot guess as to whether use will be banned elsewhere, I have read that some experts have concluded that when used topically, the chemical does not penetrate the skin and poses minimal risk. If you read the EU information, they rate the chelating agent as category 1B which means that it is a "Presumed to have carcinogenic potential for humans - largely based on animal evidence." Typically, that type of statement means that injecting the chemical into lab rats causes cancer in a significant percentage of subjects. If there was evidence that is causes cancer in humans, it would be rated 1A.

I have read that Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate is being used by some manufacturers as a replacement for pentasodium pentetate.

Tobacco smoke contains at least 70 chemicals known to cause cancer in humans. While smoking is banned in many public places in many countries, I know of no country that has an outright ban on the sale and use of tobacco.

If you have products that contain pentesodium pentetate, you will need to determine whether to dispose of them or continue using them. I checked the over 200 shave soaps in my den and found that the following contain the ingredient recently banned in the EU. Those soaps were: Art of Shaving sandalwood, DR Harris Windsor, Pre de Provence No. 63, sand Williams Mug Soap. None of these soaps is good enough to warrant inclusion in my current rotation, so they will all be tossed.

I checked ...

In the link the others.
I'll update if / when found.
Still searching.

Pentesodium pentetate is a chelating agent that helps with lathering in hard water. It has been used in a variety of soaps, shampoos, and other cosmetics.

Effective today, December 1, 2023, the EU has banned the use of this chemical. It is not currently banned in the UK or USA. While I cannot guess as to whether use will be banned elsewhere, I have read that some experts have concluded that when used topically, the chemical does not penetrate the skin and poses minimal risk. If you read the EU information, they rate the chelating agent as category 1B which means that it is a "Presumed to have carcinogenic potential for humans - largely based on animal evidence."  Typically, that type of statement means that injecting the chemical into lab rats causes cancer in a significant percentage of subjects. If there was evidence that is causes cancer in humans, it would be rated 1A.

I have read that Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate is being used by some manufacturers as a replacement for pentasodium pentetate.

Tobacco smoke contains at least 70 chemicals known to cause cancer in humans. While smoking is banned in many public places in many countries, I know of no country that has an outright ban on the sale and use of tobacco.

If you have products that contain pentesodium pentetate, you will need to determine whether to dispose of them or continue using them. I checked the over 200 shave soaps in my den and found that the following contain the ingredient recently banned in the EU. Those soaps were: Art of Shaving sandalwood, DR Harris Windsor, Pre de Provence No. 63, sand Williams Mug Soap. None of these soaps is good enough to warrant inclusion in my current rotation, so they will all be tossed.

Despite the fact that governments know smoking can and does kill and treatment from smoking related issues cost billions worldwide.  The truth is governments are addicted to the taxes from the sale of tobacco products and they won't give that up.

I know you are wondering how I checked over 200 soaps in my den for pentasodium pentetate in the formulation. Because I have evaluated so many soaps over the years, I keep a database in Microsoft Access with every soap I have used. That database contains the ingredient listing for each formulation as well as the scent notes for every scent. All I had to do was a search of the database for the ingredient and I had a list of the soaps with that ingredient in less than a minute. Setting up the database took quite a while, but I find it invaluable.

I know you are wondering how I checked over 200 soaps in my den for pentasodium pentetate in the formulation. Because I have evaluated so many soaps over the years, I keep a database in Microsoft Access with every soap I have used. That database contains the ingredient listing for each formulation as well as the scent notes for every scent. All I had to do was a search of the database for the ingredient and I had a list of the soaps with that ingredient in less than a minute. Setting up the database took quite a while, but I find it invaluable.

You should sell subscriptions to your database!

It is common for people to be able to use Microsoft Word, Excel, and Powerpoint files. They can easily be used on Windows, Mac, Android and iPhone. In order to use my database, you have to have Microsoft Access for Windows. it is included with Office Professional and Office 365 subscriptions, but not the more common Office Home versions. It only works on Windows. If anyone has Access and would like a copy of my .accdb file, I would be glad to send them a copy. Just PM me. Of course, the file will only contain the soaps I had used todate. I routinely add a new soaps every month or so. Three new soaps will be added after Christmas.

It’s hard to take stuff like this seriously. What dosage of the ingredient is harmful? How does the ingredient have to be ingested or applied for it to be harmful?

The point AlphaFrank75 made about cigarette smoke containing 70 ingredients known to cause cancer is interesting until you learn that all of those 70 chemicals are also present in the air, mostly in greater concentrations. Does breathing cause cancer? The answer is almost always to do with the dose, and there are few compounds that remain in the body permanently such that the dose increases cumulatively over time (like lead or arsenic). Trace levels of almost any toxin are entirely safe, and almost everything is toxic if the dose is high enough.

Do I really believe that people have died as a result of lathering with PdP No.63 soap? No, I’d need to see some proper evidence to convince me of that.

That was my point. The EU banned the chemical because studies in animals (probably laboratory rats), indicated they can get cancer if exposed to some quantity of the chemical. The route of exposure in such studies is typically injection or ingestion, not topical application. There is no conclusive evidence that applying the chemical to the skin, especially in minute concentrations will cause cancer in humans. That is why countries like the UK and USA have not banned the chemical at this point. 

Multiple studies in humans has indicated that use of tobacco products can cause cancer in humans. This can occur due to secondhand smoke, even when the individual does not use tobacco. That is why many locations have banned smoking in bars, restaurants, hotels, etc. 

If the soaps in my collection that contain pentasodium pentetate were ones I enjoy using, I would continue to do so. However, because they are not soaps I typically use, I will dispose of them rather than passing them along to others. 

While the EU normally takes a very conservative approach to various chemicals, they have established a daily limit for intake of tonka bean, a natural product used in cooking and baking as well as perfumery. The US FDA has banned tonka bean for use in cooking since 1954 due to a significant content of coumarin which can cause health problems. However, the FDA still permits tonka to be used in perfumery. Tonka bean is one of the three primary constituents of the classic fougere' fragrance. So this is another case of different agencies reaching different conclusions.

There is no conclusive evidence that applying the chemical to the skin, especially in minute concentrations will cause cancer in humans.
That is why countries like the UK and USA have not banned the chemical at this point.

Correct.

But there are two points that are not taken into account, from this approach:
1. chronic toxicity linked to small but frequent exposure
There are primary causes, and secondary causes for a disease.
Usually, they are not big events. But small daily mistakes.
They gradually change the quality of life, because of an unsuitable lifestyle.
2. the impact these substances have on the life of Man, damaging the environment
We have seen recently (COVID) how much it costs to break the protective barriers of Ecology. Bringing damage to Ecosophy and Economics.
Everything that begins with Eco derives from the concept of home (in ancient Greek), therefore it influences the quality of life of each one.
Regardless of the awareness of the individual.