#2,971

Member
Ferndale, MI
I'm also not a fan of the branding on this one either. I figured it was going to be dark, just not that dark. The scent, however, is heavenly, which is obviously not what Will was going for, lol. I would buy it based on scent alone, but the price tag is up there. If you like Fougères and earthy scents, you'll definitely like this one. Very complex with a cologne-like vibe to it.
- Jeff
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#2,972

Maker of Soaps and Shaver of Men
Cooperstown, NY, USA
Right. We're going to do this all at once.

(9 hours ago)Marko Wrote: Will, I've thought about posting this for a while so here goes, I had to think for a while before I pre-ordered Fougere Gothique, not because I think I might not like the scent and not because its in the reserve base (which as you know I've had trouble with) but because of the graphic on the label.  Its the devil.  Thats it. I find it disturbing.  We'll see how it goes once I get it, maybe I'll have to get a Priest to do an exorcism. I'm kidding on that point but seriously, I know its your business what you want to do with branding etc but you have to be aware that a creepy, satanic image on your label is going to offend some of your customers.  I'm well aware that skulls and other dark imagery seems to sell very well these days particularly when associated with a darker, scent such as Fougere Gothique.  So now I'm wondering what an Angel smells like and whether I can get such a soap/scent to restore some balance.

(9 hours ago)SCShaver Wrote:
(9 hours ago)Marko Wrote: Will, I've thought about posting this for a while so here goes, I had to think for a while before I pre-ordered Fougere Gothique, not because I think I might not like the scent and not because its in the reserve base (which as you know I've had trouble with) but because of the graphic on the label.  Its the devil.  Thats it. I find it disturbing.  We'll see how it goes once I get it, maybe I'll have to get a Priest to do an exorcism. I'm kidding on that point but seriously, I know its your business what you want to do with branding etc but you have to be aware that a creepy, satanic image on your label is going to offend some of your customers.  I'm well aware that skulls and other dark imagery seems to sell very well these days particularly when associated with a darker, scent such as Fougere Gothique.  So now I'm wondering what an Angel smells like and whether I can get such a soap/scent to restore some balance.

I too am not a fan of the packaging.  Obviously, many who like it will roast me and say "dont buy it," and that is fair.  It just has absolutely no appeal to me and the email I got from Barrister and Mann was a bit interesting as well, with the "Better to reign in hell than serve in Heaven" moniker.  Not my thing. Obviously Will can sell what he wants how he wants but just as a regular customer its my two cents, the whole ensemble is going to be polarizing.

Along with the somewhat disturbing imagery and in my opinion, glorifying the devil and attempting to make it all sound cool, I find that we might be jumping the shark in the wet shaving community with the pricing trend of software.  $26.99 for a 4 ounce soap? I noticed Cheshire went up two bucks (thankfully right after I ordered it at its lower price) but I find the more artisans bringing this type of luxury price to the table for 4 ounce soft soaps to completely put me off.  Again, I'm going to get the same folks that say "dont buy it" or "let the market determine the price" and thats fine but I'm telling you right now, I'm in the market, I'm a customer and I'm not paying these kinds of prices for a 4 ounce SOFT soap. Tallow and Steel, L&L, and other companies are charging luxury prices for freaking 4 ounce SOFT SOAPS.  We aren't talking about Tabac, DR Harris, MWF which have lasted me forever since my initial purchase due to their hardness we are talking about soaps that have only lasted me two seasons among a large rotation of soap. Latha Oceana, Latha Limon, B&M Cologne Russe, B&M Adagio are all at the end of their run or donuting after buying them last year. I have barely scratched the surface of DR Harris and Tabac and I've had them longer and use them use as much as the aforementioned soaps.  Now 26.99 for a soap that might last me 30 or 40 shaves? We are jumping the shark ladies and gentlemen.

I have been called a lot of things in the last 29 hours, most of which dance around the phrase "satan worshiper," so I would like to bring this to the forefront: If you find it disturbing, then it is your prerogative not to buy it. But the numbers do not lie, and the Gothique launch is our largest ever, so obviously we have produced something that appeals to the masses. I will not apologize for my design, nor will I shy away from it. I am not a religious man (quite the opposite, in fact), and, while I did not seek to offend those of faith, I am in business to make money. If appealing to the darker inclinations of the wet shaving world is how I am to make my living, then so be it.

That said, the pricing has nothing to do with the base and everything to do with the fragrance ingredients. If you believe in the work that I do as a fragrance maker, then this is how it must continue. Fragrance is not inexpensive to produce. It took me seven months to compose Fougère Gothique, and its 46 components are both somewhat expensive and very time consuming to blend. It is not "jumping the shark" at all. It is a fair price for a good product that took a long time to create. If the price is not for you, then that's fine. I am happy to recommend something else, but please do not denigrate my efforts or my knowledge by assuming that I am charging a lot of out greed, incompetence, or both.

(8 hours ago)explodyii Wrote: I really appreciate that you are pushing the envelope, and branching into new areas, Will!  Although I consider myself more of a fanboy to your "simpler" scents, it is truly fascinating to see you try something daring, and shortly after see an influx of artisans following suit with their offerings.

Although you certainly weren't the first to do a fougere, after your release of Aromatique and Imperiale, huge numbers of artisans started exploring them.  

Even though you weren't the first to offer a chypre, after Le Grande, suddenly other artisans were stepping up with their own interpretations.

So even though I will always miss Anise & Vetiver (PLEASE BRING IT BAAACK!), what you are doing is clearly influential and driving a lot of what is happening at the "avante garde" level of scents in the wetshaving arena.  With how well you marketed Fougere Gothique, who knows what we'll see in the next few months to a year?  More exciting things I hope!

A few simpler questions I had for you to wrap it up:

1) What is the "03" on the label to my LaVanille?  Formulation?

2) With a Pregosaurus Rex wife (yes I know I will be murdered in my sleep for saying that), I am limping along on the Speick aftershave since she can't do any of the Barrister's Reserve scents.  Please tell me the Caldey Island rendition is still on for September!  Will it be the same date as the LLCW?

3) Have you ever considered working with something like neroli?  I love all those hesperidic notes (specifically bergamot, petitgrain and neroli), and have always wondered what direction you would take it!

4) What's your favorite scent that has 5 notes or fewer?

Thanks so much again!

1) The three emblems of the Camargue Cross. Smile
2) Not as an aftershave yet (production delays), but as a soap, definitely. Apologies.
3) I'm working on a fragrance that incorporates neroli as we speak.
4) I don't really think I have one? Simple scents tend not to be my thing.

(8 hours ago)vtmax Wrote: "Now 26.99 for a soap that might last me 30 or 40 shaves? We are jumping the shark ladies and gentlemen."

Yes.

$6.75 an ounce. Wow.

Some of these softer soaps have a lot of water still in them. Sure we can cure them ourselves but I've noticed prices rising only with some artisans. I have been testing a new soap as good as any made today and that will be $19 delivered conus. Another one is a top 1-3 soap in performance and one gets over 5 ounces for $17.

We will see how long those folks stay in business. I have been doing this for longer than most, and, as you so adroitly pointed out on reddit yesterday, Barrister and Mann has grown fairly influential over the years. "Big," was the term I think you used. We didn't get that way by accident, and I can tell you that most, if not all, artisan shaving vendors do not charge enough for their products. Not by a long shot.

(7 hours ago)Red Tipped Cobra Wrote: Barrister_N_Mann Taking a break from FG and looking ahead: As someone who never experienced the original scent of LLCW, how would you describe the balance between the scents? Is a particular scent more forward than the others?

The lavender and the cedar are more forward, but lime oil is so strong that it balances out quite well. Smile

(7 hours ago)SCShaver Wrote:
(8 hours ago)vtmax Wrote: "Now 26.99 for a soap that might last me 30 or 40 shaves? We are jumping the shark ladies and gentlemen."

Yes.

$6.75 an ounce. Wow.

Some of these softer soaps have a lot of water still in them. Sure we can cure them ourselves but I've noticed prices rising only with some artisans. I have been testing a new soap as good as any made today and that will be $19 delivered conus. Another one is a top 1-3 soap in performance and one gets over 5 ounces for $17.

vtmax what do you think of this trend?  I've obviously stated how I feel about it but you have stated some facts about pricing increasing and I wonder where you stand? Are you cool with it?

EDIT: As a side note, if the soap lasted a minute I would not mind at all paying 17$ for 5 ounces.  See, when I look at a Stirling or a Soap Commander and I'm looking at 2.00 or 2.50 per ounce, and in the case of Soap Commander its a harder soap and it is lasting forever, that justifies value to me.  But when I use up a soap in a season or two and we are getting up on 5 and 6, even as much as $7 an ounce for a soft soap I have to take that into account.

That's your choice. Smile As I mentioned above, it's not the cost of the soap. It's the cost of the fragrance.
Soap is not just a tool; it's an art form.

Fine shaving products at http://www.barristerandmann.com
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#2,973

Member
Woodstock, Vermont
The Reserve base is good.
I was simply pointing out there are other artisans I feel have superior soap bases at lower prices. We certainly will see how long those folks stay in business.
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#2,974

Dazed and Confused
Ireland
To all those offended by the artwork just keep in mind this exists and you shouldn't click it:


But this you can handle:
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