A serious question on Soap/Cream Reviews

I enjoyed Anthony Esposito's rant the other day about people complaining on shave groups and boards. He said it all works, everything works, just shave and enjoy it.  

When I started to look at brushes, I found his video on his favorites. "The Stallion's Top 10 Shave Brushes". The very title implies he owns more than ten, which I thought a bit crazy until I realize he collected them and this was a collectors hobby.  I also thought Why is Phil Espositos younger brother doing shaving videos?  Then I looked at a few of his videos and wondered why he got a Ferrari logo as his logo (or close to it), the prancing horse and he was just shaving.   Sorry, I don't watch people shaving unless they analyze something or some feature. I don't get this thing about watching people shave, kinda weird to me. Sorry

So I went and looked at his current video and thought that was poor way to make a point. There was no need to be so crude. There are much better ways to do that like to educate people on what is going on.

So I have no idea what set him off, but his rant is not about shaving creams, its about the commercialization of internet space. Well duh. Since he didn't actually say what set him off as if the world knows what he is talking about, we have no clue about the exact details.  But, does everyone think internet space is free? It's not. Somebody has to pay for it. So I am torn by this argument. A MUCH better way to present the issue and talk about the 800 lb gorilla in the room was done by Rick  https://brushnsoapnblade.wordpress.com/2...-and-more/ Start around the 1 hour mark. Rick lays the problem out in a logical and straightforward manner. For those not inclined to watch videos or listen to podcasts, here is the TL;DR version.

Internet space cost money. Period. Somebody has to pay for bandwidth and disk space. Unless you wealthy and can provide free stuff for altruistic reasons, to some degree advertising pays some of the way, along with begging for money. Everyone has their hand out. I have no idea what Facebook does nor care. But in forum space, unless a forum is massive,   where corporations own a 100 forums (and they do exist), I have found in the shaving space, its heavily driven by vendors. Well get over it. It is what it is. So what? There is a cost to everything. To be fair, this forum is very well done, the best around. OTH, some others go overboard trying to keep all discussion internal without reference to the real world.  The very strength of the Internet is that its unbounded. To bind it keeping it internal weakens its very strength.

So I'm sorry but his rant was about how virtual space is organized and run. Life is not free. There is a cost to everything. It was not about rankings of shaving creams. He ranks shaving brushes. Sure, you can use about anything. That does not mean you might want to. Just look at the description of his shaves. Although its clear he owns many shaving brushes, Saville Row clearly dominates usage. Clearly. His very usage pattern ranks them.

After listening to the other podcast, it has become clear to me that if a review of soaps, for the most part it only means it worked for the reviewer. The lack of a review about a product "could" mean they found it lousy for some reason but are unwilling, for some reason, to publicly say so. That is bad for the consumer and does a disservice to every one of us.  IMO.

I enjoyed Anthony Esposito's rant the other day about people complaining on shave groups and boards. He said it all works, everything works, just shave and enjoy it.  

When I started to look at brushes, I found his video on his favorites. "The Stallion's Top 10 Shave Brushes". The very title implies he owns more than ten, which I thought a bit crazy until I realize he collected them and this was a collectors hobby.  I also thought Why is Phil Espositos younger brother doing shaving videos?  Then I looked at a few of his videos and wondered why he got a Ferrari logo as his logo (or close to it), the prancing horse and he was just shaving.   Sorry, I don't watch people shaving unless they analyze something or some feature. I don't get this thing about watching people shave, kinda weird to me. Sorry

So I went and looked at his current video and thought that was poor way to make a point. There was no need to be so crude. There are much better ways to do that like to educate people on what is going on.

So I have no idea what set him off, but his rant is not about shaving creams, its about the commercialization of internet space. Well duh. Since he didn't actually say what set him off as if the world knows what he is talking about, we have no clue about the exact details.  But, does everyone think internet space is free? It's not. Somebody has to pay for it. So I am torn by this argument. A MUCH better way to present the issue and talk about the 800 lb gorilla in the room was done by Rick  https://brushnsoapnblade.wordpress.com/2...-and-more/ Start around the 1 hour mark. Rick lays the problem out in a logical and straightforward manner. For those not inclined to watch videos or listen to podcasts, here is the TL;DR version.

Internet space cost money. Period. Somebody has to pay for bandwidth and disk space. Unless you wealthy and can provide free stuff for altruistic reasons, to some degree advertising pays some of the way, along with begging for money. Everyone has their hand out. I have no idea what Facebook does nor care. But in forum space, unless a forum is massive,   where corporations own a 100 forums (and they do exist), I have found in the shaving space, its heavily driven by vendors. Well get over it. It is what it is. So what? There is a cost to everything. To be fair, this forum is very well done, the best around. OTH, some others go overboard trying to keep all discussion internal without reference to the real world.  The very strength of the Internet is that its unbounded. To bind it keeping it internal weakens its very strength.

So I'm sorry but his rant was about how virtual space is organized and run. Life is not free. There is a cost to everything. It was not about rankings of shaving creams. He ranks shaving brushes. Sure, you can use about anything. That does not mean you might want to. Just look at the description of his shaves. Although its clear he owns many shaving brushes, Saville Row clearly dominates usage. Clearly. His very usage pattern ranks them.

After listening to the other podcast, it has become clear to me that if a review of soaps, for the most part it only means it worked for the reviewer. The lack of a review about a product "could" mean they found it lousy for some reason but are unwilling, for some reason, to publicly say so. That is bad for the consumer and does a disservice to every one of us.  IMO.

What set him off was the same sort of elitist nonsense that set me off not too long ago...a grouo of people on one side telling beginners to throw their gear in the trash and buy XYZ brand razor for 4 times the cost. The same people insist that a new straight shaver cant leanr how to hone without inveating multiple hundreds of dollars and paying their pre-approved "honemeister" to first hone their razors. Theybtell newbies to buy their overpriced brand of soap that actually has reall, REALLY sub-par performance, and if you tell then that...they ban you. These people are bullies, and honestly have no interest in helping newbies, or exapanding the community within the hobby. They browbeat you, and ban you if you stand uo for yourself or someone else.

Jt has nothing to do with the internet costing money. It has to do with grouos of people trying to preserve an aura of untouchable mysticism and expense around straight razor shaving and honing.

You noticed he uses a $300 brush, but did you also notice he also tends to favor a $10 straight?

Anthony Esposito is loyd and crass, but there is no bs on his channel. He is one of my favorite YouTubers because he tells it like it is...no BS, no sugar coating, just straight up...

He is not going to appeal to everyone, but he appeals to me for these exact reasons...

End rant...

Sent from my LGL34C using Tapatalk

Hey, Chris (BadDad), why don't you tell us how you really feel. [Image: Hlaugh.gif]
(not that I disagree )

I have found out, and based on my experience with this hobby/lifestyle, that most individuals that do what BadDad is pointing out, is because they have something vested in the product, be financial, promotional, and most of the time they are low life individuals of poor character.

The good thing is that most of us are smart enough to see through the garbage, so I don't even bother.

On the topic, I still believe a review is nothing more than one person opinion of a product based in their own personal experience, nothing more.  I take reviews with a grain of salt and if I really want to try the product, then I just buy the darn thing

What set him off was the same sort of elitist nonsense that set me off not too long ago...a grouo of people on one side telling beginners to throw their gear in the trash and buy XYZ brand razor for 4 times the cost. The same people insist that a new straight shaver cant leanr how to hone without inveating multiple hundreds of dollars and paying their pre-approved "honemeister" to first hone their razors. Theybtell newbies to buy their overpriced brand of soap that actuy as reall, REALLY sub-par performance, and if you tell then that...they ban you. These people are bullies, and honestly have no interest in helping newbies, or exapanding the community within the hobby. They browbeat you, and ban you if you stand uo for yourself or someone else.

OK, thank you for the missing piece. He should have explained what he was ranting about. But this does not change my point. Its ALL ABOUT MONEY. Somebody has to pay the bills. And if the forum bans them, I know some do, then its about money, exactly what I said. They are protecting the interests of their paying customer.

Not saying thats right or wrong. I'm saying that is what it is. Listen to the podcast link. That is exactly what Rick in SoapnBrushnBlade is talking about ... exactly.

Jt has nothing to do with the internet costing money. It has to do with grouos of people trying to preserve an aura of untouchable mysticism and expense around straight razor shaving and honing

I know nothing about that subject so I have no comment. But it IS about money. Its always about money. If they are banning people, they are protecting their vested interests.

You noticed he uses a $300 brush, but did you also notice he also tends to faesvor a $10 straight?

Does he? I don't know. I watched Tour of the Stable (which is a bit stange because usually stables refers to cars) but I saw approx:

7 high end soaps
maybe 80 middle priced soaps with a few Proraso and Razorock in there (he panned fast)
Maybe 25 brushes, all the Saville Row, Thater, and Simpson prominently displayed in the front with his boars and synthetic hidden in the back
maybe 12 safety razors
a bunch of ADP cologne

~39 straights 2 gold dollar, entire rolls of Dovo? Thiers? Boker? I forget all the names and don't know all the prices other than gold dollar is cheap and Thiers sounds expensive with a real ivory handle? Exotic woods like cocobolo?

Sounds like an expensive and impressive den to me, far out of my league. I can't tell but he sure sounded partial to those bokers and thiers and Dovos. Those had especial rolls?


And by accident I saw two Amazon reviews, one of GFT coconut rated 2  stars and one of ADP rated the best in the world

My only point of this was back to the previous post about this reviewer using all kinds of soap. Now that I have seen his "den", its sure looks high end to me but I am learning all this. Maybe others have far more stuff. So how much is all that stuff worth? Any Guess? Maybe 10K?

Lots of haters and jealous popinjays in this hobby of ours. I used to post pictures of my den and stopped a long time ago. There was always a smart a$$ that would make a really stupid comment, mostly out of jealousy.

Same with the reviewers that like to show off all the freebies they get and expect me to trust their assessment

I have to ask what is so strange about someone nicknamed Stallion referring to their den as a stable. Never heard of a stable for horses?

What set him off was the same sort of elitist nonsense that set me off not too long ago...a grouo of people on one side telling beginners to throw their gear in the trash and buy XYZ brand razor for 4 times the cost. The same people insist that a new straight shaver cant leanr how to hone without inveating multiple hundreds of dollars and paying their pre-approved "honemeister" to first hone their razors. Theybtell newbies to buy their overpriced brand of soap that actuy as reall, REALLY sub-par performance, and if you tell then that...they ban you. These people are bullies, and honestly have no interest in helping newbies, or exapanding the community within the hobby. They browbeat you, and ban you if you stand uo for yourself or someone else.

OK, thank you for the missing piece. He should have explained what he was ranting about. But this does not change my point. Its ALL ABOUT MONEY. Somebody has to pay the bills. And if the forum bans them, I know some do, then its about money, exactly what I said. They are protecting the interests of their paying customer.

Not saying thats right or wrong. I'm saying that is what it is. Listen to the podcast link. That is exactly what Rick in SoapnBrushnBlade is talking about ... exactly.

Jt has nothing to do with the internet costing money. It has to do with grouos of people trying to preserve an aura of untouchable mysticism and expense around straight razor shaving and honing

I know nothing about that subject so I have no comment. But it IS about money. Its always about money. If they are banning people, they are protecting their vested interests.

You noticed he uses a $300 brush, but did you also notice he also tends to faesvor a $10 straight?

Does he? I don't know. I watched Tour of the Stable (which is a bit stange because usually stables refers to cars) but I saw approx:

7 high end soaps
maybe 80 middle priced soaps with a few Proraso and Razorock in there (he panned fast)
Maybe 25 brushes, all the Saville Row, Thater, and Simpson prominently displayed in the front with his boars and synthetic hidden in the back
maybe 12 safety razors
a bunch of ADP cologne

~39 straights 2 gold dollar, entire rolls of Dovo? Thiers? Boker? I forget all the names and don't know all the prices other than gold dollar is cheap and Thiers sounds expensive with a real ivory handle? Exotic woods like cocobolo?

Sounds like an expensive and impressive den to me, far out of my league. I can't tell but he sure sounded partial to those bokers and thiers and Dovos. Those had especial rolls?  


And by accident I saw two Amazon reviews, one of GFT coconut rated 2  stars and one of ADP rated the best in the world

My only point of this was back to the previous post about this reviewer using all kinds of soap. Now that I have seen his "den", its sure looks high end to me but I am learning all this. Maybe others have far more stuff. So how much is all that stuff worth? Any Guess? Maybe 10K?

I should have been more clear. Sorry, I was on my phone and having a difficult time. There are actually 2 issues at play. 1 is the mods banning people, and the other is the general membership berating and belittling new shavers that show up with inexpensive gear. People being banned for advocating inexpensive gear over the gear offered by the vendors or owners of the forum is absolutely all about the mighty dollar...

As for the Stallion--Why would someone have to limit themselves and the gear that they use in order to acknowledge that inexpensive gear works just as well as expensive gear if treated properly? Please note I said WORKS just as well, not looks, feels, or pleases. Obviously the high-end gear has high-end fit and finish etc. I can;t speak of performance without having any real comparison. Just because I can get great shaves with inexpensive gear does not mean that high-end gear does not provide a better experience. It must, lest it would not warrant the price tag. So by all means, buy it, use it, and love it!

Anyone that has the means to spoil themselves should, by all means, spoil themselves. This is a hobby, above all else, otherwise we would all be using just 1 razor, 1 soap, 1 brush, and not talking about it on a forum. It's a hobby. Buy, collect, use, display anything you want. That's good for the artisans, the vendors, and the hobby. I encourage it.

Just don't be insulting or condescending to others that cannot or do not splurge to that degree.

We have several members here with very high end collections. Yes, I drool. But I am not jealous or envious. I do not begrudge anyone their $300 badger brush just because a $65 badger brush is the most expensive brush I own. I appreciate every piece of gear in my den, and what I have performs very well for me, both in terms of the shave experience and in terms of keeping my bank account happy. There is room in this hobby for every level of obsession and every income level.

There is quality kit that performs well for every level of obsession and every level of income as well.

There is no room in this hobby for arrogance, condescension, and insulting others, for any reason, be it the nonsense that Hector refers to or the nonsense that I refer to. Both are equally damaging to the hobby by creating negativity and tension where it really doesn't need to exist.

Just because I can't afford a Wolfman Razor doesn;t mean I should be a jerk anytime someone shares a picture of one. Likewise, just because someone else would never buy a $25 Gold Dollar razor does not give them the right to look down their nose towards someone that can only afford that. We need to get along to grow the hobby, for all of us to benefit.

Meh...that stuff doesn't happen here, and that is why I like it here. In an effort to avoid turning this into a "gripe" thread, I have no interest in naming names. There are multiple places where this happens, so pick one and pretend thats the one I'm talking about...lol

BTW...I listened to that podcast some time ago. Very good listen, and I think the guy nailed. Very much in agreement with him and you in regards to how some of these large forums are operated...

What set him off was the same sort of elitist nonsense that set me off not too long ago...a grouo of people on one side telling beginners to throw their gear in the trash and buy XYZ brand razor for 4 times the cost. The same people insist that a new straight shaver cant leanr how to hone without inveating multiple hundreds of dollars and paying their pre-approved "honemeister" to first hone their razors. Theybtell newbies to buy their overpriced brand of soap that actuy as reall, REALLY sub-par performance, and if you tell then that...they ban you. These people are bullies, and honestly have no interest in helping newbies, or exapanding the community within the hobby. They browbeat you, and ban you if you stand uo for yourself or someone else.

OK, thank you for the missing piece. He should have explained what he was ranting about. But this does not change my point. Its ALL ABOUT MONEY. Somebody has to pay the bills. And if the forum bans them, I know some do, then its about money, exactly what I said. They are protecting the interests of their paying customer.

Not saying thats right or wrong. I'm saying that is what it is. Listen to the podcast link. That is exactly what Rick in SoapnBrushnBlade is talking about ... exactly.

Jt has nothing to do with the internet costing money. It has to do with grouos of people trying to preserve an aura of untouchable mysticism and expense around straight razor shaving and honing

I know nothing about that subject so I have no comment. But it IS about money. Its always about money. If they are banning people, they are protecting their vested interests.

You noticed he uses a $300 brush, but did you also notice he also tends to faesvor a $10 straight?

Does he? I don't know. I watched Tour of the Stable (which is a bit stange because usually stables refers to cars) but I saw approx:

7 high end soaps
maybe 80 middle priced soaps with a few Proraso and Razorock in there (he panned fast)
Maybe 25 brushes, all the Saville Row, Thater, and Simpson prominently displayed in the front with his boars and synthetic hidden in the back
maybe 12 safety razors
a bunch of ADP cologne

~39 straights 2 gold dollar, entire rolls of Dovo? Thiers? Boker? I forget all the names and don't know all the prices other than gold dollar is cheap and Thiers sounds expensive with a real ivory handle? Exotic woods like cocobolo?

Sounds like an expensive and impressive den to me, far out of my league. I can't tell but he sure sounded partial to those bokers and thiers and Dovos. Those had especial rolls?  


And by accident I saw two Amazon reviews, one of GFT coconut rated 2  stars and one of ADP rated the best in the world

My only point of this was back to the previous post about this reviewer using all kinds of soap. Now that I have seen his "den", its sure looks high end to me but I am learning all this. Maybe others have far more stuff. So how much is all that stuff worth? Any Guess? Maybe 10K?

I should have been more clear. Sorry, I was on my phone and having a difficult time. There are actually 2 issues at play. 1 is the mods banning people, and the other is the general membership berating and belittling new shavers that show up with inexpensive gear. People being banned for advocating inexpensive gear over the gear offered by the vendors or owners of the forum is absolutely all about the mighty dollar...

As for the Stallion--Why would someone have to limit themselves and the gear that they use in order to acknowledge that inexpensive gear works just as well as expensive gear if treated properly? Please note I said WORKS just as well, not looks, feels, or pleases. Obviously the high-end gear has high-end fit and finish etc. I can;t speak of performance without having any real comparison. Just because I can get great shaves with inexpensive gear does not mean that high-end gear does not provide a better experience. It must, lest it would not warrant the price tag. So by all means, buy it, use it, and love it!

Anyone that has the means to spoil themselves should, by all means, spoil themselves. This is a hobby, above all else, otherwise we would all be using just 1 razor, 1 soap, 1 brush, and not talking about it on a forum. It's a hobby. Buy, collect, use, display anything you want. That's good for the artisans, the vendors, and the hobby. I encourage it.

Just don't be insulting or condescending to others that cannot or do not splurge to that degree.

We have several members here with very high end collections. Yes, I drool. But I am not jealous or envious. I do not begrudge anyone their $300 badger brush just because a $65 badger brush is the most expensive brush I own. I appreciate every piece of gear in my den, and what I have performs very well for me, both in terms of the shave experience and in terms of keeping my bank account happy. There is room in this hobby for every level of obsession and every income level.

There is quality kit that performs well for every level of obsession and every level of income as well.

There is no room in this hobby for arrogance, condescension, and insulting others, for any reason, be it the nonsense that Hector refers to or the nonsense that I refer to.  Both are equally damaging to the hobby by creating negativity and tension where it really doesn't need to exist.

Just because I can't afford a Wolfman Razor doesn;t mean I should be a jerk anytime someone shares a picture of one. Likewise, just because someone else would never buy a $25 Gold Dollar razor does not give them the right to look down their nose towards someone that can only afford that.  We need to get along to grow the hobby, for all of us to benefit.

Meh...that stuff doesn't happen here, and that is why I like it here. In an effort to avoid turning this into a "gripe" thread, I have no interest in naming names. There are multiple places where this happens, so pick one and pretend thats the one I'm talking about...lol

BTW...I listened to that podcast some time ago. Very good listen, and I think the guy nailed. Very much in agreement with him and you in regards to how some of these large forums are operated...

My friend you are absolutely 100% correct. I own very nice high end gear, and I can tell you with all certainty that I could do without it and achieve the same results.

I bought most of it for my personal enjoyment, for the looks, and in some instances, performance.

But at the end of the day, I can admitted, since I don't have any vested interest in these companies. :-)

I have to ask what is so strange about someone nicknamed Stallion referring to their den as a stable. Never heard of a stable for horses?

Because "usually" when I have heard the word stable, it references someone with 5 or 6 cars and shows a picture of their garage of cars. Since a prancing horse is the logo for Ferrari, a Ferrari might be part of that collection. No, never heard of it for a "den", and therefore it sound strange to me.

I should have been more clear. Sorry, I was on my phone and having a difficult time. There are actually 2 issues at play. 1 is the mods banning people

OK, we agree on this. The reason is obvious. Its in their vested interest. I don't agree with it and think it stifles the forum. The strength of the internet is being unbounded. To stifle it and create a closed society hurts the membership.  Thats a legitimate gripe but the reason for it was clearly defined in the podcast by Rick, MONEY.

the other is the general membership berating and belittling new shavers that show up with inexpensive gear.

I have found since reading a lot of stuff that the entire "hobby" does this and its pretty much universal. I see a very distinct hierarchy, intended or not, of ...

straight > DE/SE > Cartridge > disposables > Electric (dry shaving)

This is very much a prejudice and in my mind no different than berating people for using cheap tools. Making fun of people who use cartridges or electric razors isn't cool either. Worse yet, is the insistent and continued used of degrading words such as "canned goo" when obviously canned shaving cream or gel completely dominates the true marketplace and is the preferred method by the vast majority.

Of course such words are just propoganda - public relations - Bernays. Its a means to convince others that YOUR lifestyle is better than their lifestyle.

If you are saying those berating those using cheap stuff is to get them to buy products from paying vendors, then that just makes it worse.

People being banned for advocating inexpensive gear over the gear offered by the vendors or owners of the forum is absolutely all about the mighty dollar...

Thats the same as the first thing.  Money. No argument there.

As for the Stallion--Why would someone have to limit themselves and the gear that they use in order to acknowledge that inexpensive gear works just as well as expensive gear if treated properly?  

OH, I got nothing against his collection of stuff. I find it quite extensive. He displays it, seems proud of it, and thats fine. I think his last video was a crude presentation, Since he didn't explain what he was talking about, as you just explained, that didn't help. My reaction is to the comment: "He said it all works, everything works, just shave and enjoy it. ... in Esposito's case, he shaves with a straight, and uses everything from RazoRock to AdP with excellent results"

I've said that 3 times. You can use almost anything, but he very clearly ranks his shaving brushes and he published a review on the about the largest retailer on the planet that declared about ADP "treat yourself to the best shave soap/cream in the world" A theirs straight as 5 star. GFT Coconut as "good" but 2 star and obviously not in the same class as ADP. And then an Edwin Jagger DE as 5 star and a Merkur 4 star.   My only point being he does rank items.


But this is getting way off my original question which is "Where are all the negative reviews"?  It's clear from one podcast that they don't exist because video reviewers will not post them if asked by the originator. Makes sense if they get free stuff from this.

Now we have a second point, which you  might have inadvertently brought up. If people are banned for discussing cheaper stuff than what the forum is pushing to make money, then what happens if there is a negative review of those vendors? I can only guess they too will be banned. After all, it hurts the forums or FB bottom line.


I find it strange that there are few negative reviews of shaving creams/soaps as if people are trying to protect manufacturers. This hurts the consumers. In what other industry does this happen?