Yaqi Single Edge AC style

Respectfully that is a 2 edge sword. What you bring to DFS is beneficial and what DFS brings to you is beneficial and not available elsewhere. I understand your frustration as best I can looking in from outside but threatening doesn't seem a good approach to a forum that brings you value. JMHO I already said I wasn't interested in their copy and I'll sit this out now......

+1  ... I share this sentiment.  Tone in a message is as important as the words themselves.  Will a vendor decide to bail on DFS if DFS refuses to censor shaving-related content?  Fine, wish you well as you depart. This forum does not exist for the enrichment of vendors. It is an online gathering place for a community to discuss shaving-related topics, whether or not such topics please a vendor.  I don’t support counterfeits (I’ve never seen this new razor so no jumping to conclusions here). But I think a little competition breeds “innovation”. . .

It’s a symbiotic relationship. We, the makers and brand owners, create the products that serve as the topics of discussion which allow a place like this to continue and we engage actively which helps the forum stay relevant. In return, we benefit from having a place where our goods can be discussed and where we can engage with customers which helps grow our brands. As far as leaving, we needn’t be so dramatic as you’re suggesting. I won’t be leaving DFS no matter what. It’s simply a matter of where we invest excess time and effort.  I currently spend a LOT of time and energy here. I check in several times a day and browse many threads to see if I can be of service. I invest easily an hour per day here on average and that’s time and effort that could be reallocated if I don’t feel it’s a worthy investment. Not a big dramatic deal, but this is my livelihood and I need to make decisions that benefit my business and I need to fight for that business.

I used to do the sys admin work on a different shaving forum where there was a good amount of censorship over products being discussed and talked about on that particular forum. it was not a fun place to be, trust me.

+1  ... I share this sentiment.  Tone in a message is as important as the words themselves.  Will a vendor decide to bail on DFS if DFS refuses to censor shaving-related content?  Fine, wish you well as you depart. This forum does not exist for the enrichment of vendors. It is an online gathering place for a community to discuss shaving-related topics, whether or not such topics please a vendor.  I don’t support counterfeits (I’ve never seen this new razor so no jumping to conclusions here). But I think a little competition breeds “innovation”. . .

It’s a symbiotic relationship. We, the makers and brand owners, create the products that serve as the topics of discussion which allow a place like this to continue and we engage actively which helps the forum stay relevant. In return, we benefit from having a place where our goods can be discussed and where we can engage with customers which helps grow our brands. As far as leaving, we needn’t be so dramatic as you’re suggesting. I won’t be leaving DFS no matter what. It’s simply a matter of where we invest excess time and effort.  I currently spend a LOT of time and energy here. I check in several times a day and browse many threads to see if I can be of service. I invest easily an hour per day here on average and that’s time and effort that could be reallocated if I don’t feel it’s a worthy investment. Not a big dramatic deal, but this is my livelihood and I need to make decisions that benefit my business and I need to fight for that business.

I used to do the sys admin work on a different shaving forum where there was a good amount of censorship over products being discussed and talked about on that particular forum.  it was not a fun place to be, trust me.

I believe that. Look, it’s a delicate line to walk and I certainly appreciate that. I’m not angry at you guys in any way because this isn’t personal for me and I see your perspective. Our incentives and our responsibilities to both our respective ventures just happen to diverge on this. Anyway, I still wish you’d reconsider, but I respect the decision and I’m glad you guys heard me out. I think we’ve covered about all that needs to be covered. So let’s move on from this for now go back to being friends. The business stuff will fall where it falls. <3

The business stuff will fall where it falls. <3

Do not warry.
In Italy people say ... “Purebred do not race against pony”.

This is why I can't justify buying Yaqi or dscosmetic brushes.

The bottom line here is one side doesn't trust the general wet shaving consumer to make a decision in their (the original maker's) favor and that the mere idea of even knowing of a cheaper alternative, albeit "plagiarized", will cause potential buyers to "jump ship" in Walmartesque lock step thereby loss of potential revenue.

On the other hand, Merkur & Edwin Jagger survive despite a cornucopia of Chinese clones hawked on  Maggard, WCS, Italiian Barber & countless smaller vendors to include Ebay & Amazon. Are we to boycott these vendors in some sort of political "sit in"?

In a perfect World the originator could sue for patent infringement in court (if there even is a patent), but as this involves litigation in China that will have zero traction. But, that is the chance you take by entering into this competitive arena. It would be foolish to believe different if but for a moment. Note however that countless brush & razor artisans have managed to thrive through innovation & exclusive quality despite these hurdles.

This is a tough one. Morals & Ethics concerning business practices that infringe upon intellectual property when it comes to entities/countries that participate in the WTO have a modicum of protection & rights that entail business procedures, fair trade, property rights that include both creative and inventive rules & regulations across the globe. Unfortunately,  China is one of the few countries that announces it will participate in the WTO but, never really quite gets  involved as it has no desire too. The CCP knows that there is no way those regulations can be enforced by the governing body and literally flips the bird at the capitalist world. I feel, understand and sympathize with Blackland Razors  - Shane, on his plight and issues with his designed razor being copied/plagiarized from production pirates that work in international waters under a communist regime. I'd be madder than hell too if it were my product being hijacked and taking away from potential earnings & livelihood. And Shane has every right to voice his displeasure and show disgust and outrage over this. And yes, he can also reveal those concerns right here on this forum and wherever else he chooses to do so.

However, my question is this. How much do forum administrators/moderators quell in terms of conversational content between its forum members to appease an artisan manufacturer who also happens to be a site sponsor (and is a Stalwart with his products, business model,  customer service and integrity) and still maintain forum integrity with its members in allowing constructive dialogue about any particular product, service or action whether good or bad in its entirety without reservation? As long as forum decorum is observed, of course. I'd hate to be that forum administrator/moderator to be quite honest. Thankfully I'm not so, I don't have to weigh the mitigating/aggravating factors between sponsor loyalty and forum discussion integrity & balance.

It's tough to say it but, I agree with andrewjs18 & all the forum admins on keeping this thread open for the sake of its members and honest dialogue. In not taking the stance on defending a well liked & respected sponsor/manufacturer over his/their copyright issues with a specific product, it can also hurt the site in sponsorship revenues which may/may not be recoverable. It takes a solid pair to make such a decision and I commend DFS on their choice of freedom for the forum over censorship/restriction to protect sponsorship interests.

I love you Shane and your products. You adhere to a code of business ethics that's to be commended with a passion for quality and service to your customers that is impeccable and is the standard that only a few others in the industry follow and many outright ignore.

But, here the forum is of the utmost importance in allowing members to speak freely within reason. Ultimately,  in the long run, Blackland hopefully will reap the benefits of open dialogue in this thread as it educates both young and old, newbie or veteran on the varying differences of a poorly executed clone to a product that is done meticulously in US hands with US sourced materials that keeps Americans working.

F***ing A! Ride through it Shane......

The bottom line here is one side doesn't trust the general wet shaving consumer to make a decision in their (the original maker's) favor and that the mere idea of even knowing of a cheaper alternative, albeit "plagiarized", will cause potential buyers to "jump ship" in Walmartesque lock step thereby loss of potential revenue.

This is such a bad read on my position. I think I've been pretty clear in my messaging here so I don't how you've reached this conclusion. In fact, I've even said that I'm not worried about short term revenue loss and I'm certainly not worried about fans "jumping ship" from a $200 razor to a budget zamak. What I'm worried about is the ever-increasing prevalence of knock-offs taking away incentives for makers to invest time and resources into developing new products. And I worry about normalizing and accepting this behavior as a viable alternative to the original products. Encouraging and allowing a cheap knock-off incentivizes these companies to knock off more. While a crappy zamak razor won't impact the Vector, what happens when they start CNCing them? Forums have a real opportunity to put the brakes on this slippery slope. The community will lose innovation if we allow it to continue.

I'm very open to reasonable and respectful debate, but only if my words are taken as they're written. I take a lot of effort to be a clear and honest communicator so please don't try to reach conclusions about my intent when I've been quite clear about exactly what my intent is.



Anyway, the forum has already reached its decision so I think I've reached the end of my willingness to debate. The good news is that the next phase of Blackland is our most innovative and will differentiate Blackland substantially. Always looking forward and always grinding. I'm not going anywhere.

I watched through a short series of shows on Netflix that was Border Security: America's Front Line. Made me have a new respect for USA'S customs agents and policies.
    Something that caught my eye is related to this particular topic is the way the agents were catching fake knockoff merchandise and trying to prevent that flow.
 It seems like Customs didn't care if it was an American company or other companies they we're trying to stop the imposters, which I get, and agree with.
   I realize in our smaller niche type of products and businesses this would be probably a lot more difficult and probably impossible if another company just stole your product specs and redid it with their name.
    Sorry about you getting ripped off Blackland Razors.
    I'm one that also appreciates the mods here letting us have free speech, until people just get mean and nasty.

This is a tough one. Morals & Ethics concerning business practices that infringe upon intellectual property when it comes to entities/countries that participate in the WTO have a modicum of protection & rights that entail business procedures, fair trade, property rights that include both creative and inventive rules & regulations across the globe. Unfortunately,  China is one of the few countries that announces it will participate in the WTO but, never really quite gets  involved as it has no desire too. The CCP knows that there is no way those regulations can be enforced by the governing body and literally flips the bird at the capitalist world. I feel, understand and sympathize with Blackland Razors  - Shane, on his plight and issues with his designed razor being copied/plagiarized from production pirates that work in international waters under a communist regime. I'd be madder than hell too if it were my product being hijacked and taking away from potential earnings & livelihood. And Shane has every right to voice his displeasure and show disgust and outrage over this. And yes, he can also reveal those concerns right here on this forum and wherever else he chooses to do so.

However, my question is this. How much do forum administrators/moderators quell in terms of conversational content between its forum members to appease an artisan manufacturer who also happens to be a site sponsor (and is a Stalwart with his products, business model,  customer service and integrity) and still maintain forum integrity with its members in allowing constructive dialogue about any particular product, service or action whether good or bad in its entirety without reservation? As long as forum decorum is observed, of course. I'd hate to be that forum administrator/moderator to be quite honest. Thankfully I'm not so, I don't have to weigh the mitigating/aggravating factors between sponsor loyalty and forum discussion integrity & balance.

It's tough to say it but, I agree with andrewjs18 & all the forum admins on keeping this thread open for the sake of its members and honest dialogue. In not taking the stance on defending a well liked & respected sponsor/manufacturer over his/their copyright issues with a specific product, it can also hurt the site in sponsorship revenues which may/may not be recoverable. It takes a solid pair to make such a decision and I commend DFS on their choice of freedom for the forum over censorship/restriction to protect sponsorship interests.

I love you Shane and your products. You adhere to a code of business ethics that's to be commended with a passion for quality and service to your customers that is impeccable and is the standard that only a few others in the industry follow and many outright ignore.

But, here the forum is of the utmost importance in allowing members to speak freely within reason. Ultimately,  in the long run, Blackland hopefully will reap the benefits of open dialogue in this thread as it educates both young and old, newbie or veteran on the varying differences of a poorly executed clone to a product that is done meticulously in US hands with US sourced materials that keeps Americans working.

Fucking A. Ride through it Shane......

to touch on the forum stuff specifically, since I have intimate knowledge on this (Freddy can attest to this too)...it depends on the forum itself. on the last forum I was involved with prior to resurrecting DFS, the person who owned that forum also owned a shaving store, so he had a financial incentive to keep discussions to a minimum and/or outright banned on 1) products he didn't sell in his own store and 2) vendors/artisans who weren't paying on that forum...which was also selective, too, in who they allowed to become an approved vendor/artisan.

there's a TON of moderation involved in following those practices and an outstanding amount of downright paranoia...

I can't be bothered with any of that, nor can I burden a mod with that type of work...all of whom are not compensated for their time.

I can't be bothered with any of that, nor can I burden a mod with that type of work...all of whom are not compensated for their time.

Just hand me the keys and I'll take good care of it!