Yaqi Single Edge AC style

Designs are like drawings, you don't own the rights to a drawing. ...

But you do own the rights to a drawing.
By the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988, it is the default assumption that the artist owns the copyright from the get-go.

To a point, yes. There's only so much you can do to be original with any razor, be it a straight, or safety razor. You can play with angles, blade gaps, etc. but it's still going to end up being similar to something else on the market, or another razor from the past. 

One could cite the Lupo being a knockoff of the Wolfman, yet it's clearly not a clone. Inspired by, yes. They admit that, in so many words. Nobody would ever confuse the two. 

In this case, looking at what Yaki is planning on producing, it's clearly a clone of Shane's design, using the flattened center post, etc. Sometimes the lines can be blurry, but in this case, it certainly seems they're planning on a near carbon-copy of the Vector. When you reverse engineer someone else's design, and make it as close as possible to the original, it becomes a counterfeit. Even if they call is something else, folks "in the hobby" will know exactly what it is. 

Suppose for a moment if Shane released a clone of the Tradere, instead of obtaining the blessing from Richard. What if he got his hands on an original Tradere, reversed engineered it, and released it - an exact copy of the original. Even if he named it something else, you know very well he would've been faced with harsh criticism within our community. And based on BBS's comment earlier, that would've been borderline ok, since Richard just "made the drawings" and didn't produce the razors himself. Granted, because Richard lives here in the USA, he would have legal recourse. But my point is simply that Shane would've been ridiculed (and, rightfully so) had he done just that. 

Look...I have no dog in the fight. I don't know Shane. I don't work for (or do work for) Blackland. I'm not so naive to think counterfeiting can or will ever be stopped. But, he's a valuable asset to our community. Heck, he'll even gladly recommend someone to buy a Timeless razor. I don't think his asking that the "advertising" for a knockoff of his design be deleted to be unreasonable. Yaki will probably still release their version in time. Personally, I think it's in poor taste to allow posts of any blatant ripoff hardware to exist in this, or any shaving forum.

Yaqi for sure take inspiration from Blackland.
Topcap is slightly similar, for what I see now.
And center post needs to be shaped accordingly.
These are the only two points I see for now in this prototype that remembers me a Vector.

I do not like or support counterfeiting.
The few razors I have / had / share of, they are homages to other designs, but have something new and different.
Yaqi, RazoRock, Phoenix Shaving (PAA), WCS, Viking Shaving ... and so on, the list is huge.
Not speaking of the smelling-good-things world ... with lots of "artisans".

I do not use some terms.
They are too strong in this moment, with very few infos.
I'm not affiliated to, I'm not a fan of, I'm not a crusader for.
IMHO, the jinn is already out of the lamp.
Better to have details and share them.
If / when the details will tell us this is more than an inspiration, I'll personally ask the Staff to delate the topic.
In each and every community I belong. As asked before to watch this.

For now ...

I'm still thinking on the issue at hand as it puts DFS in a no win situation.

DFS is already in the lose/lose situation. The only matter at hand now is the relative values DFS places on each losing option. Do we value the ability for knock-offs to be freely discussed at risk to the original makers more or do we value the makers and artisans that spend time, money, effort, and expertise here every day with the risk of losing some discussions about knock-off products?

I don't envy your position and I respect whatever decision you and the admin staff make. I appreciate you guys taking the time to at least consider this. It's easy for me to sit here and make unilateral declarations for how the world should be, but it's tough to be the ones making the call.

I don't like censorship, but I like thieves even less.  China is the world's preeminent shameless intellectual property thief. They have also been duplicitously interfering in our elections, and bankrolling violence in our streets.  They are an enemy nation.  It's not a difficult choice; I side with Shane.

I am a part of an Indian Wet Shaving forum and I have been an avid supporter of SE razors and AC in particular. Vector is a beautiful razor and 50% of my shaves now hover between a Vector and my other DE razors in SOTD pics.

If I share this Yaqi SE info on that forum, I bet a minimum of 50 would like to buy the clone without even understanding what all is being discussed here.

So, it also is my responsibility not to share this info anywhere else. People might eventually find out on Alibaba etc etc but not through me and I side with Shane on the points raised by him.

Thanks


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I'm still thinking on the issue at hand as it puts DFS in a no win situation.

DFS is already in the lose/lose situation. The only matter at hand now is the relative values DFS places on each losing option. Do we value the ability for knock-offs to be freely discussed at risk to the original makers more or do we value the makers and artisans that spend time, money, effort, and expertise here every day with the risk of losing some discussions about knock-off products?

I don't envy your position and I respect whatever decision you and the admin staff make. I appreciate you guys taking the time to at least consider this. It's easy for me to sit here and make unilateral declarations for how the world should be, but it's tough to be the ones making the call.

No, DFS is not in a "lose/lose" situation. You are "grandstanding" now to try and cast a broad net of collective guilt upon anyone who merely glances at the thread/topic in question. I would venture to say you have lost some potential new customers by demanding others do your bidding. I saw a man destroy his business in a mere few posts on an Internet forum because he couldn't control his temper. Don't be that guy.

Hi All,

After a few days of discussions with the rest of the mod team, we decided to keep this thread open and visible. We'd all be naive if we didn't think that there weren't copies/dupes of popular items in the shaving ecosystem. In fact, there's tons of dupes out there: soap and aftershave scents, razors, brush handles, etc....

Rather than trying to avoid discussion of clones/copies/dupes, maybe a better approach for artisans is to tell people why it's better to buy THEIR product(s) than what some knockoff company is producing.

Hi All,

After a few days of discussions with the rest of the mod team, we decided to keep this thread open and visible.  We'd all be naive if we didn't think that there weren't copies/dupes of popular items in the shaving ecosystem.  In fact, there's tons of dupes out there: soap and aftershave scents, razors, brush handles, etc....

Rather than trying to avoid discussion of clones/copies/dupes, maybe a better approach for artisans is to tell people why it's better to buy THEIR product(s) than what some knockoff company is producing.

Because we're the ones who made the damn thing. I'm blown away that it requires any more explanation than that. Reward makers. Reward small businesses who create the products that this forum relies on to discuss. You've chosen instead to reward those who take the hard work from others, who take advantage of their country's currency manipulation in order to produce products at a price that we who actually took the risk cannot compete with, and who will never participate here in our community. So instead of you guys taking that stand, your solution is that we have to spend our time moderating posts here in case a knock-off is shared so we can hop in to plead our case. I'll be doing just that, but I have a feeling that won't be as well received as you're making it sound.

Hi All,

After a few days of discussions with the rest of the mod team, we decided to keep this thread open and visible.  We'd all be naive if we didn't think that there weren't copies/dupes of popular items in the shaving ecosystem.  In fact, there's tons of dupes out there: soap and aftershave scents, razors, brush handles, etc....

Rather than trying to avoid discussion of clones/copies/dupes, maybe a better approach for artisans is to tell people why it's better to buy THEIR product(s) than what some knockoff company is producing.

Because we're the ones who made the damn thing. I'm blown away that it requires any more explanation than that. Reward makers. Reward small businesses who create the products that this forum relies on to discuss. You've chosen instead to reward those who take the hard work from others, who take advantage of their country's currency manipulation in order to produce products at a price that we who actually took the risk cannot compete with, and who will never participate here in our community. So instead of you guys taking that stand, your solution is that we have to spend our time moderating posts here in case a knock-off is shared so we can hop in to plead our case. I'll be doing just that, but I have a feeling that won't be as well received as you're making it sound.

so did other companies, who have had their work(s) copied by artisans, too. there's probably hundreds or thousands of duplicated soap scents and aftershaves on the market. why is it ok for them to have their stuff copied/clone/duplicated?

the point is, the forum would cease to exist if we took that type of approach on dupes and copies.