Why Should the Average Man Join Us?

BadDad I think you are right again in terms of pace of life but it does takes a particular type of man to appreciate what you describe.

I wish I could talk more folks into shaving this way but its difficult. Most hate shaving, and cannot imagine shaving being at all enjoyable. Additionally, even though the cartridges are so expensive, many people cannot get past the initial investment of a safety razor, brush, soap, AS. There are two lines that intersect with the wet shaving starting high and finishing low, where the cost of cartridge shaving starts low, and finishes high as future cartridges/razors keep getting purchased.

For me, this ended up being a hobby and I wish I wasn't quite as obsessive about it as I am because I've probably spent way more money in the past couple years than I'd have spent in a lifetime of cartridge shaving, but, shaving is awesome now and its my favorite part of my morning routine. I have a hard time conveying that to people because typically they can't see that, and they just dont care.

I wish I could talk more folks into shaving this way but its difficult.  Most hate shaving, and cannot imagine shaving being at all enjoyable.  Additionally, even though the cartridges are so expensive, many people cannot get past the initial investment of a safety razor, brush, soap, AS.  There are two lines that intersect with the wet shaving starting high and finishing low, where the cost of cartridge shaving starts low, and finishes high as future cartridges/razors keep getting purchased.

For me, this ended up being a hobby and I wish I wasn't quite as obsessive about it as I am because I've probably spent way more money in the past couple years than I'd have spent in a lifetime of cartridge shaving, but, shaving is awesome now and its my favorite part of my morning routine. I have a hard time conveying that to people because typically they can't see that, and they just dont care.

I agree with your points.  Family members look at me like I'm a little off doing this traditional shaving routine.  I finish the first of my standard two pass shave and my wife asks "wouldn't you be done now if you were using your old (meaning cartridge) razor?"  And I try to explain that when I used carts it was multiple passes with no more gel used, whereas now I am reducing stubble with one pass, re-lather, and touch up with the second pass, producing superior results (she agrees) and enjoying my time instead of rushing it.
But most just think it is a waste of time, even if they haven't tried it.

As for expense, the acquisition syndromes hit as the initial weeks turned to months, and I nearly fainted when I saw how much I have spent since the beginning of last November.  It has sort of tapered down, but it is still too easy to buy another soap or tuck of blades when what I already have will last well over a year. I rationalize it as variety adding more enjoyment to the morning.  But it is not something I'd bring up immediately with a new recruit. Best to let them discover that black hole on their own!

I hope that the skin on my face will look better than it used to, and then others will see the point.  I see and feel the difference, but I don't want to bring it up with co-workers! How odd that conversation would ?!  I will talk about a great shave with the right guys, and how switching to traditional shaving has become an enjoyable hobby that gives me satisfaction every day. Other hobbies are often relegated to specific days, not every day, so this one crosses back and forth between hobby and daily routine. How many other hobbies can do that? I love backyard astronomy, but it is only at night, when there are no clouds, and other conditions must be met (my ability to stay up, the right objects not being blocked by trees, not too many bugs, not too cold, etc). But shaving, that's something I do almost every day. And as BadDad had stated, now I can pamper myself and I have been able to turn a dreaded chore into an enjoyable time I look forward to.  It will be interesting to see if I still feel this way in a year or two.  Does it lose its "shine" as we go on? I would be interested to hear what others think, since that can also be useful in recruiting/helping others in this hobby/routine/obsession!

Eric (MaineYooper), no, the shine doesn't wear off.  Some mornings I get up, look at all of the shaving stuff I left out the night before for the current shave and think I don't want to bother.  However, once I finish the shave my whole outlook is incredibly high and I love the feel of the close smooth face.  On the few days I opt for the quick cartridge shave, or no shave at all, I regret it the moment I leave the apartment.  That traditional wet shave really does give me a big mental boost, not to mention it makes this tired old 70 year old mug look like it's 69 again.

Yeah it is interesting, but some people just can't see themselves enjoying shaving because they've hated it for so long. I hated it most of my entire adult life. It was only researching the safety razors online that I figured, what the heck, let me just try it and I was off to the races.

Another co-worker of mine is a wet-shaver, but he is very much a minimalist and has one soap, one brush, one or two razors and he SAVES a ton of money. Heck even if I could talk someone into doing that, it would be a great thing for the hobby.

I share my experience with my friends. If they show interest then I give them a starter kit and a written set of instructions to get them going. I have converted about a dozen to our world.

I have done this a few times.  The problem is most of my friends live on the fast lane, work, children, etc.  So they see this more of a shore and a daily necessity than self indulgence.  

I did to when I used to work, but I was so used to it that I stuck with it for over twenty years.

We also live in a world of instant gratification, guilty as charged your Honor!

You are not going to like my answer but I give it in good faith …Of course, this is just an opinion -  First … I disagree with these assumptions.

we would all claim that DE's/SE's/straights give a closer, more comfortable shave than carts …

There are a good half dozen, at least, very large shaving forums like this one catering exclusively to traditional wet shaving.

1. Unless you have polled every person who has uses electric razors, disposable, and cartridges, you cannot say that traditional wet shavers (which I define to mean with a straight razor, DE, or SE) get closer shaves. Although I am a single data point and anecdotal data doesn’t mean much, I can, in fact, get just as close a shave with a Pro Fusion. I suspect, the majority of men can. Not all, but most.

2. I disagree that there are very large shaving forums. The largest one I know of ranks around 37,500 according to alexa and dropped over 2,000 spots in the last year. Single car model forums of just one manuracturer rank much higher, nm all the other car forums (hundreds). In fact, shaving forums are small in the big scheme of forums.  Forums are like balloons that grow and shrink. People come and go and a core group might stick around. The Pareto Principle always comes into play, maybe 95% of posts are made by 5% of the population. Overall membership size means little. Active membership size matters. Once a forum reachs a critical mass, its bought out by companies whose business it is to make money on forum. I might have no idea who owns what but I suspect that major forum companies (e.g., internet brands) do not yet own shaving forums. Why? Lack of sizable income. Of course, I might be wrong. ...

What will it take to get men to love better quality shaving again, or at least make it worth it to give up the carts/disposables/electrics and cans of goo?

Let’s suppose you succeed and there is a massive move to drop “goo” and buy all the safety razors and shaving cream. How will that work out? Are you sure that is what you want? You know that saying about be sure you know what you wish for? So here is one prediction.

Those vendors on the financial fringe of the “artisan” community will fail. I have no idea how big the total market is but a good guess is over $20B. You know that the big boys will move in and dominate it. Follow the money. If today you have, for example, 50 - 100 + artisans of both hardware and software, many (not all but many) will collapse, not able to compete. Economies of scale will kill them. Say goodbye to your favorite choices. Just look at cars. Way back when cars were new, a hundred “artisan” car makers flourished. In the end, the BIG 4, and then the BIG 3 survived in the US. Are you sure you want that to happen because it will. Big money will bring in the big boys and spell the end to what you see today.


So what are the obstacles to making this happen?

1. Technology, for the most part, always tends to make life easier for humans. Why not go back to clamshells? Why stop at DE? Technology matters.  If they come out with a safe and cheap laser razor, traditional methods are doomed. There was a reason the masses moved from straight edge razors to safety razors – its called “safety” and you can shave yourself easier. Technology then moved on to cartridges and disposables. Disposables are dirt cheap and toss them. We live in a disposable society. This book was written in 1906 so it’s in the public domain. https://archive.org/details/shavingmadeeasyw0020th

Shaving Made Easy – What the Man Who Shaves Ought to Know
Published by The 20th Century Correspondence School,
New York
Copyright 1906

You might find this passage interesting

“Of recent years a great number of safety razors have been invented and placed on the market, the manufacturers of each claiming that theirs are superior to all others and that they have at last produced a razor that is destined to revolutionize shaving.  One thing may be said of safety razors in general — that if a man uses  one he is less likely to cut himself, but this is all that can reasonably be said in their favor …most of the safety razors are difficult to keep clean and dry, and therefore free from rust; and owing to the difficulty of stropping them, it is almost, if not quite impossible to keep them sharp. It is also difficult to make the correct stroke with them. Probably a hundred thousand safety razors have been sold in the United States within the past few years and it is extremely doubtful if ten per cent, of them are now in use.”

They make it sound like using a straight edge was easy and a safety razor difficult because “it is also difficult to make the correct stroke”. And it sure sounds like the straight razor advocates sure hated those newfangled technologies in safety razors. With a 10% keep rate, they make it sound like they were doomed to fail!

And yet technology continues to march forward … Try to buy a car with  a Manual Tranmission today. Yes, there are few but good luck with that. How many people use horse carriages rather than driving a car? I’m sure its cheaper. How many people do ANYTHING using old technology that is NOT a hobby. By that I mean some audiophiles will own $10,000 turntables and listen only to vinyl, etc but that is not mainstream. For the masses, listening to satellite radio is “good enough” which leads us to …

2. It’s Good Enough. No matter what “we” think, the “its good enough” philosophy rules. It doesn’t matter if there is something better out there, if what exists “is good enough”. It doesn’t matter if traditional razors are less irritating as long as what exists is good enough. Think about that and how you apply that to daily life. Do you make your own artisanal Pizza in a 900 degree wood burning oven? Some people do. But for many people using a Baking Stone is “good enough”. For others microwaving a frozen pizza is “good enough”. This applies to about everything. What is “good enough?”

3. Societal trends. Look at any TV show, movie, anything in the media. How many 20 or 30 somethings do you see with a 3 day stubble? Its fashionable. The less people shave, the less they care about these things. Its cool to have that look today. What effect does that have on this industry when clearly shaving is not a daily thing?

4. As you mention, for most men shaving is a mundane, daily task, no different from brushing your teeth or washing your hair. Its NOT fun. Its NOT a hobby. Its something you just want done. Period. I didn’t say “all”, just “most”, the majority. That alone will kill any serious resurgence. Who wants to learn new skills, buy  equipment, be involved in anything they don't want to do it anyway? It's counterintuitive.

6. Time Time is money. For most men of working age, they want to be out the door ASAP. Traditional wet shaving is time consuming. While I am sure there are some who can say “not me”, for the average guy it simply is. There is too much risk of blood. This ties back to technology making cartridges safer and quicker. And we live in the world of instant gratification. This is NOT going away.

7. Money – yes money for millenials using electrics. Here is a review of the OneBlade from a millennial – quote http://dailytekk.com/2015/10/30/is-a-300...g=continue

“I simply don’t want to pay $30 a month for blades. … I’ll be sticking with my electric.” Yes, I know blades can be much cheaper but that is not the point and I know he might not understand but that is the mindset you have to defeat. That is the obstacle. How will you sell this to Millennials in the masses? Not one offs here and there but the millions upon millions who think the 3 day stubble look is cool and don't want shave anyway?


What will it take to get men to love better quality shaving again, or at least make it worth it to give up the carts/disposables/electrics and cans of goo?


For one thing, stop calling canned shaving cream “goo”. Whether or not its true is not relevant. But using degrading names for a product doesn’t help the cause but rather shows a prejudice that doesn’t sell well. You don’t see cartridge or disposal razor users call traditional wet shavers Luddites. Here is the best I got …

Nothing ...

Setting hobbyists aside, you cannot stem the march of technology. You can never go home again. Just as there will always be those who prefer horses, drive Manual transmission cars, listen to vinyl, or want to expand their 8 track or VHS collection of tapes, these are all hobbies. They are not mainstream.

While I might use a grille and barbeque tonight, that’s a hobby. I’m not giving up my microwave either.

While I might own a manual transmission car and want to heel and toe, I also am not giving up my automatic transmission car while stuck in traffic.

While I might own a baking stone, buy 00 flour, and make dough by hand for pizza, I’m also going to call the Pizza delivery place and the pizza better be here in 30 minutes or its free.

While I might appreciate watching a 1930s, black and white movie with scratchy sound, I’m also not giving up watching Star Wars in HD and Surround sound either.

I think you get the point … Asking the mainstream to go back in time is a very tough sell and worse  yet, those that remember won’t be around forever. If  you are a early baby boomer, then you remember back in the day. But if you  are a late baby boomer, say born after 1955, then the moment cartridges and disposable razors came out in 1971 and  you were a teenager – game over.

Sorry I know that was not what you wanted to hear but a reality check can be jarring.  I appreciate all this as a hobby. That’s cool. But I would not expect it ever to be mainstream again. I enjoy it for what it is. It puts a smile on my face, and that's cool.

Why should the average mam join us? Is "joining us" referring to taking up traditional wetshaving or to joining Damn Fine Shave?

Traditional wet shaving, lol.....

I think that was a brilliant post grim. But you don't account for traditional style DE's like the Bevel and MicroTouch returning to Target and Walmart after decades of nothing. You don't account for Art of Shaving expanding into every other mall in America... With in store reports to rerelease the Gillette Tech. You don't account for near a dozen up coming new SE's being released from the past couple years through the year ahead, while for decades there has been zero new SE's sold at all.

And I actually agree with your stance on technology for the most part. Isn't the OneBlade a great example of that. Perhaps the Zafirro razor using sapphire blades will be the next breakthrough... Or even laser razors if they can ever figure out how to do it right. New shaving technology will have to perfect three things to succeed: closeness, safety, and convenience (price gets better after the new technology is normalized and production improves). And clearly there is room for improvement here... Which is why new tech is being created, and old tech is experiencing a revival.