Unethical?

The analogy isn't perfect, but it still works, say you bought your shares from coca cola directly in an IPO for $20 and let's compare coca cola to an artisan, you made a profit off that artisan by flipping the shares for $30 at the artisans expense.  Someone else went on to make a profit by flipping it again and so on.  Similar to buying a Wolfman for $300 CAD, selling it to someone for $400 USD and that person selling it for $600 USD.

This community is as much to blame as the so called scalper.  I think we all need to take a hard look in the mirror at ourselves.  Some of us manage to get the unobtainium and we talk it up with the other elites that have the unobtanium.  That makes the people without the unobtanium want to be part of the club and willing to sell their left nut to get the unobtanium so that they too can be part of the club.  All you're doing is driving up the market demand for products that might already be overpriced even when you get them direct from the artisan.

No doubt that the psychology of marketing and collecting is interesting and has been studied by marketing firms to the nth degree. Things are limited in production sometimes because its the nature of the artisan making the item by hand, one at a time and sometimes it just makes good business sense to limit the item. Nobody ever jumped at an opportunity to pay a premium for an item that is widely available and that everybody either has plenty of or can get as much as they want whenever they want. No. We want to buy that thing that nobody else has or at least not very many and then there is FOMO - fear of missing out. Get it while it lasts because when its gone, its gone. Maybe. Unless I decide to do another limited run next year. So Nuki Man I certainly agree that we're our own worst enemies but in my defence I will argue that I am virtually powerless against the Jedi mind tricks employed in the name of marketing. How else can I explain the vast quantity of shaving soap I possess?

I don't consider threads like this one to constitute "whining" about prices on ebay.  I think its part of the value of a community like DFS that members point out examples of pricing or practices that they believe may fall outside the boundaries of fair play or reasonableness in the marketplace.  Yes, we all understand the nature of a free market with buyers and sellers and constant reminders of that are not particularly helpful.  The fact is, these threads provide a service particularly to those just starting out on their traditional wet shaving journey.  The OP wasn't necessarily griping about the price of the brush, at least not entirely but rather about the fact that the seller took one of the limited spots in Paladin's que to buy a brush with the express purpose of immediately flipping it on ebay for a substantial markup - like a ticket scalper, he's a parasite thats extracting a premium for little effort and preying upon those who may actually want one of those brushes but couldn't get one because the scalper had got there first and bought them all.  Should this concern the rest of us if we aren't interested in buying that brush on ebay - yes and no.  No if you're not interested in buying any custom shaving brushes ever but if you are possibly buying brushes at some point, then this practice could have upward pressure on brush prices generally.  The artisans are aware that their products can attract premium prices in the aftermarket (Wolfman?) and if it happens frequently enough and the premiums are big enough then, resorting to the often pointed out free market economics the demand is clearly outstripping supply so the price must rise.  In that scenario everybody pays more, so yeah, that ebay paladin brush scalper is a D-bag.

Ok Marko, that one made me laugh.  Between the FOMO and Jedi Mind tricks we are all doomed.  God (and my wife) both know I have way to many A/S splashes.  I figured out which are my 10 favorite and have 3-4 bottles of each, just in case the vendor runs out or discontinues it.  

Our grandfathers would roll over in their graves if they saw this.  These were tools to get a job done, not a hobby.  1 razor, 1 blade, 1 soap and 1 AS was all they ever needed.

Granted, Nuki Man, but isn't that the point?  It is a hobby for many of us which is why we enjoy sharing what may be our good fortune in getting in on a limited edition or even just a first time with a product (artisan or commercial). For those of us who do see it as a hobby, we already have way too much but keep coming back for more.

Someone paying a thousand dollars for a razor that was made 50 years ago and will never be made again is different in my mind than paying double the price for something that is sold twice a month.

I don't understand why it is "unethical" to wait your turn to get on a waiting list, pay the price to purchase a premium product, and then sell that product at a markup to earn a profit.

There is nothing morally corrupt in that scenario in any other hobby outside of wet shaving. People do it in models, trains, RC, coins, stamps, art, photography, antiques, furniture, and virtually any other marketable hobby you can name.

None of those hobbyists spend years debating about the ethical apocalypse that is brought on such activities. None of those hobbies are dying a slow, painful death as a result of those practices. Newcomers to those hobbies learn through the kindness of strangers or they get taken for a ride, and then, in their own turn and likely accordingly with what they received, they either help a newbie out or take advantage of the next round of saps.

I understand, appreciate, and practice the art of helping the newbs. I enjoy shaving as a hobby. I enjoy helping others out because it makes me feel good. I get a warm and fuzzy feeling and all the cliches that go along with it. It's greedy in that the feeling I get from giving something away is both pricelss and unobtainable. This has been aided by others helping me so much when I started.

I am all for "warning" new comers that products can be had for less if they look in the right places. I'm all for pointing out these ridiculous and outrageous prices for products and so-called "unobtainium". I am all in for helping out the newcomers to the hobby. It's a primary factor in my enjoyment of the hobby.

However, it is unfair, in my opinion, to refer to those that do not share my interest in helping others "unethical". Ethics is the application of morals and morality in business. It assumed that a business entity will act their own best interest, to make a profit. Waiting in line for your turn, paying your price for a premium product, and selling it at a huge markup is not unethical. It is not wrong. It is what a business does.

It *might* be unethical to purchase from a B/S/T if certain conditions apply, such as a rule forbidding it in that forum, or a request from the seller that this be a "bro deal"(or whatever) for someone that really needs the gear, not an opportunity for a hawk. In those instances, I would absolutely agree that an ethical line has been crossed in that their is intentional deception to acquire the product.

But in the case of a Paladin or Wolfman or whatever being purchased legitimately at retail value and resold for a huge markup...there is no ethical dilemma. It's what a business is expected to do, and there is nothing wrong, morally or legally, in the transaction progression.

Truth be told, if the individual is actually a business, and they lose profits as a result of being called unethical publicly by a media outlet (such as a forum) for such activity, there is the potential for a libel suit...

being Canadian is it really that much different then me ordering soaps directly from the US manufacture and paying more for shipping, exchange and duties to ensure I get the soap, rather then wait for it to come to a Canadian retailer that offers free shipping. If I want to ensure I get the item quickly, or get it at all because it might run out. Although not a direct comparison still highlights that it's the consumers choice what to pay for a product. That being said, I have an extra Wolfman that I rarely use anymore since I like the one with the larger blade gap more, if I were to sell it I would likely sell it on a BST for slightly more than I paid to cover shipping and taxes I paid but not start bidding wars on an auction, but that's yet again my personal choice.

I don't understand why it is "unethical" to wait your turn to get on a waiting list, pay the price to purchase a premium product, and then sell that product at a markup to earn a profit.

There is nothing morally corrupt in that scenario  ... Ethics is the application of morals and morality in business. It assumed that a business entity will act their own best interest, to make a profit. Waiting in line for your turn, paying your price for a premium product, and selling it at a huge markup is not unethical. It is not wrong. It is what a business does.  

Well said BadDad . Don't these threads come up every other month? The clock must have run out.

Of course its not unethical. We live in a capitalistic society. Don't like it? Then go live in an communist or socialist society. The market defines the prices. A willing seller gets what they can from a willing buyer. Thats how the system works. If someone things it price gouging, its not. There is no disaster going on. The buyer paid a willing price. If someone thinks the buyer was being taken advantage of, then PT Barnum was right. There's a sucker born every minute. Whose fault is that? Its the buyer for not doing their due diligence.

Its called ... capitalism. Provided the buyer and seller follow the rules of the venue (e.g., eBay, forums, etc.) it falls within societal norms. As they say "Caveat Emptor" and that saying has existing for two millennial.

Wait, isn't this hobby supposed to be more gentlemanly than all others?

Ethical used as an adjective:
1. Pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct.
2. Being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice.

Price gouging is not an ethical behavior. Living in a free market society does not give one cart blanc to price gouge, at any level. We have laws to prevent price gouging, and where laws don’t exist, public outcry is witnessed as seen with the Epi Pen money grab.
Just because you can charge twice the price for an item doesn’t mean it is right or ethical to do so. It just means you are greedy.

Ethical used as an adjective:
1. Pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct.
2. Being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice.

Price gouging is not an ethical behavior. Living in a free market society does not give one cart blanc to price gouge, at any level. We have laws to prevent price gouging, and where laws don’t exist, public outcry is witnessed as seen with the Epi Pen money grab.
Just because you can charge twice the price for an item doesn’t mean it is right or ethical to do so. It just means you are greedy.

How is it price gouging? Besides the fact that you don't want to pay that much, what other actual reason do you have to call it unethical to make a profit on a premium product this individual purchased?

You are specifically applying the word "ethics" to a business practice. Ethically speaking, the person in the ebay link you shared is doing NOTHING illegal, NOTHING unethical, and NOTHING immoral. You just don't like it.

Price gouging would be charging an arm and a leg for clean water, or charging 300times the market value on a medical procedure or raising the cost of a life-saving prescription drug 900% overnight. These are price gouges, because they are enacted upon goods and services that are necessities, not options. People do not have a choice in whether they drink clean water or need to take a medication in order to continue breathing.

Buying a brush for $300, and turning around and selling it for $400 is not "price gouging", it's profiting. It's a markup. A 100% markup is retail standard. A 200% markup is retail optimum.

It works like this:

You don't want to wait for your turn on the waiting list to spend $300 on a Paladin brush, so you don't. you lose out on the opportunity to get said brush at retail price from the manufacturer.

Wet Shaving Genius A waits on every waiting list that comes out. How? By spending his own precious time observing and watching the manufacturer in an effort to jump on the list at the moment it opens. He then spends his own hard earned money to pay the really high asking price for a premium, limited brush.

When that brush arrives, Wet Shaving Genius A spends more of his own money to open an Ebay shop, where he sets his asking price for this exceedingly rare and difficult to obtain piece of premium gear.

2 things strike me in the above scenario:
1--you don't want to waste your time getting on a long waiting list to sit around and wait 6 months to a year to receive your brush after paying for it.

2--you don't want to pay the asking price for someone that DID sit around on a waiting list for however long after making payment for a brush.

How is it even remotely unethical to charge whatever he wants for the brush he followed the rules to get?

I really wish I had the same sense of entitlement that makes some of you guys think a complete and perfect stranger OWES you a great deal on a piece of gear that THEY HAVE and YOU WANT. How freaking confident in your own self importance and entitlement must you be to think it is flat out "unethical" for a businessman to actually make a profit on their efforts and investments?

What is REALLY "unethical" is running around accusing businesses of unethical behavior when they have followed every rule in existence to obtain a piece of premium gear, and try to sell it at a profit.

Bear in mind we aren't talking about a guy selling on a BST forum. This is frickin' EBAY. The ORIGINAL high-price resale venue.

It is absolutely ludicrous to think that anybody selling anything on ebay owes YOU some sort of price leverage. Absolutely ridiculous.

The only thing that would be "unethical" in the original ebay link would be if the seller stole that brush from someone else to sell it. And I don;t mean "stole" as in got it at a discount specifically to flip it, I mean took it from the owner without the owner's knowledge. Clearly that is not the casse here.

People are just whining because they aren't being given a super deal on a rare piece of premium gear. Unbelievable...