TSE Rants Episode #1 - Hyperbolic Soap Descriptions

CHSeifert same here lol. It's a fancy bit of marketing, to be sure, but doesn't tell us much about the scents themselves. Then again, asking for an objective, plainspoken description of a fragrance is a bit like asking the same of a painting or other work of art. Perhaps even worse, because we see paintings the same way, while each of us have a very different sense of smell and scent memory/associations. If such a thing were possible, would it really capture the essence of a work of art, or only its surface features?

Freddy That very well could be. Either way, the inaccuracies and problems with speaking in terms of a general "we" has been sufficiently demonstrated. As I stated previously, I disagree with his premise and actually enjoy those descriptions, partly due to the counterarguments I mentioned, but also because I have an appreciation for artistic branding.

I understand where TSE is coming from on this issue. In many ways, long descriptions describing picturesque scenery do not do much to bring to mind actual scents, and may even be manipulative because they play on our positive associations with exotic destinations and the like.

That said, here are two reasonable counterarguments to that perspective: First, there is no such thing as Smell-O-Vision, and speaking as a fragrance enthusiast with a fairly decent level of experience in this area, I'd argue that it isn't always easy or possible to capture the smell of a product in its description; second, product descriptions aren't necessarily intended to be 100% informative since they also serve a purpose in a product's marketing campaign.

I can also see where Freddy is coming from on the "we" comments. Personally, I enjoy artful descriptions since they contribute to the branding of the product, which I tend to appreciate. But on the other hand, I don't think that TSEvangelist was intentionally trying to speak for everyone (though it did come out that way in parts of the video). From what I can tell having watched many of his videos, TSE is usually very careful in prefacing his comments with a nod to subjectivity and an observation/disclaimer that what works for some might not work for others. I'd bet that his use of the word "we" was an unintentional slip of the tongue, and that he'd recognize that some folks can disagree with his perspective, and are certainly entitled to do so.

Just my two yuan. I really enjoyed the video and see both sides of the description topic.

We'll have to agree to disagree, NeoXerxes.  The video was out and out offensive to anyone who might choose to think for himself/herself.  A simple, "I" instead of "we" would have put a whole different spin on this,  Also, adding the alcohol puts a different feel on these videos.  His thoughts on the whisk(e)y he drinks belongs in The Lounge, not in a review of shaving soaps.

And you presume to speak for those that think for themselves?

JustinHEMI Maybe I am assuming the best of everyone here, but I certainly don't think that is what Freddy was saying . From what I understood of that comment, he was attempting to highlight the problems with speaking on behalf of an entire community. I agree with his perspective on the matter - it is rude to do that.

Incidentally, this really highlights some problems of linguistics. I tend to assume that others have the best intentions because it is very easy to accidentally communicate something that you don't intend to communicate.

This really isn't worth arguing over, and I suspect that we all might agree on the general principle anyway.

JustinHEMI Maybe I am assuming the best of everyone here, but I certainly don't think that is what Freddy was saying . From what I understood of that comment, he was attempting to highlight the problems with speaking on behalf of an entire community. I agree with his perspective on the matter - it is rude to do that.

Incidentally, this really highlights some problems of linguistics. I tend to assume that others have the best intentions because it is very easy to accidentally communicate something that you don't intend to communicate.

I was merely making the point that he is doing exactly what he chastised the OP for doing. I choose to think for myself (sic) and don't need help deciding when to take offense in something. In fact, I put little weight into the statement "I'm offended." It's meaningless.

To each their own, I enjoy TSE's videos and whether he says "I" or "we" is of no consequence to me.

Justin

I understand where TSE is coming from on this issue. In many ways, long descriptions describing picturesque scenery do not do much to bring to mind actual scents, and may even be manipulative because they play on our positive associations with exotic destinations and the like.

That said, here are two reasonable counterarguments to that perspective: First, there is no such thing as Smell-O-Vision, and speaking as a fragrance enthusiast with a fairly decent level of experience in this area, I'd argue that it isn't always easy or possible to capture the smell of a product in its description; second, product descriptions aren't necessarily intended to be 100% informative since they also serve a purpose in a product's marketing campaign.

I can also see where Freddy is coming from on the "we" comments. Personally, I enjoy artful descriptions since they contribute to the branding of the product, which I tend to appreciate. But on the other hand, I don't think that TSEvangelist was intentionally trying to speak for everyone (though it did come out that way in parts of the video). From what I can tell having watched many of his videos, TSE is usually very careful in prefacing his comments with a nod to subjectivity and an observation/disclaimer that what works for some might not work for others. I'd bet that his use of the word "we" was an unintentional slip of the tongue, and that he'd recognize that some folks can disagree with his perspective, and are certainly entitled to do so.

Just my two yuan. I really enjoyed the video and see both sides of the description topic.

We'll have to agree to disagree, NeoXerxes.  The video was out and out offensive to anyone who might choose to think for himself/herself.  A simple, "I" instead of "we" would have put a whole different spin on this,  Also, adding the alcohol puts a different feel on these videos.  His thoughts on the whisk(e)y he drinks belongs in The Lounge, not in a review of shaving soaps.

And you presume to speak for those that think for themselves?

Hi Justin.  I am sorry you misinterpreted what I was trying to get across.  If I offended you, that was not my intent.  All I am trying to say is, present the facts (at least as you see them) and let me make up my own mind.  Don't do it for me.  Ironically, the core of what Chris was trying to get across I basically agree with.  However, please, let the individual decide for himself.  That is where I am coming from.

I agree with Chris to some extent, but I don't know a lot of artisans who does that, except for PAA. A lot of descriptions there can be a tad tedious to read.

I would like a little creativity in the descriptions, not just what Chris wants of putting simply the word "Lemon" for lemon scents. That's just boring and uninspired in my opinion, there are lots of artisans now, surely taking the trouble to be a little more descriptive can only be a benefit to both buyer and seller; However putting long winded and sales man-ish descriptions to the product kinda puts me off too. There must be a balance in the descriptions, I'd like to be wooed into buying a product, but don't be too long winded that it bores me to finish reading the whole thing.

I enjoy a little background in the description, like what the inspiration may be or what the artisan was going for, obviously I also want to see a concise description of the scent. If its got vetiver, musk and patchouli in it then they should say so. If you look at the Chatillon Lux website Shawn has some historical anecdotes in there because his branding and marketing are derived from the historical background of the St. Louis area - he does give a list of the fragrances used but let me tell you, you aren't going to be able to guess what the final products smell like from that - maybe an impression but you have to experience those babies.
Marko

Marko great points!

I'd also add another point that I just thought of:

A clear, no nonsense description (that TSEvangelist seems to want) will only work with the simplest compositions. For instance, if I am attempting to describe the scent of Castle Forbes Lavender, I might be able to capture the idea of some large portion of its scent by suggesting that it smells like "lavender". But could I do the same with PannaCrema Nuavia Blu or Rossa? With those, the scent complexity is so significant that it is difficult to describe the fragrance in any useful way except by analogy. The same goes for extremely complex fragrances, such as Diaghilev by Roja Dove - good luck describing that one without reference to marketing imagery (which is indeed an essential part of the artistry and overall composition) or general categories like "chypre" (which won't tell you anything particularly specific about the smell itself).

CHSeifert same here lol. It's a fancy bit of marketing, to be sure, but doesn't tell us much about the scents themselves. Then again, asking for an objective, plainspoken description of a fragrance is a bit like asking the same of a painting or other work of art. Perhaps even worse, because we see paintings the same way, while each of us have a very different sense of smell and scent memory/associations. If such a thing were possible, would it really capture the essence of a work of art, or only its surface features?

Freddy That very well could be. Either way, the inaccuracies and problems with speaking in terms of a general "we" has been sufficiently demonstrated. As I stated previously, I disagree with his premise and actually enjoy those descriptions, partly due to the counterarguments I mentioned, but also because I have an appreciation for artistic branding.

NeoXerxes, perhaps Chris is looking for the controversy.  Then again, perhaps not.  There are so many ways to bring about a particular point but I just don't think this was one of them.

In the last dozen or so videos from TSE, he seems to be mroe and more aggressive.
I have unsubbed to him for this reason, and okay honestly, when he made that video about new shaving creams, where he throws the Musgo Real in the sink.

I saw this as a disrespect towards a classic Portugese brand, that I happen to love.
I own 250-300 creams and soaps, and Musgo Real to my knowledge still ranks among the best creams in my den, and I own all 6 tubes Musgo Real.

Throwing a tube of cream like that is just disrespectful and I'm just not a fan of the way he behaves in his videos, but it's a free world, so let him play, while I unsub