Should it matter?

we definitely allow a lot more discussion than most websites out there.  at some point though, controversial threads start circling around and they start getting heated.  wolfman threads are a perfect example of this..

There is a fine line that is often gray between wise moderation and outright censorship. Often people forget that our World does not function on civility and never will.

Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost.

Thomas Jefferson

we're not going to get into that here as I'm fairly certain that Jefferson is directing his quote towards governmental policy, not private entities.

Here's a question for those that think reviewers should buy all the products. How does a young start up like us get our product in front of the most people possible if we wait for reviewers to get around to buying our stuff?
Is it unethical for attendees to post a review of our product(s) they got for FREE at a meetup?


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I think a pass around would be a better bang for your buck. It encourages a sustained conversation about your product.

Man, I just read this whole thread. I had no idea about the whole VanYulay /CDB thing. What a world we live in.

I agree about the pass arounds!

if a merchant is interested in a DFS pass around, shoot me a PM and we can chat about it!

Is it unethical for attendees to post a review of our product(s) they got for FREE at a meetup?

No, not necessarily. But when a merchant (whom I will not name) does engage in such behavior along with false product information and price-gouging, and who was able to get negative reviews of his products removed, it is.

In fairness to all, however, the aforementioned merchant is the exception rather than the norm.

Let's look at a couple things, though:

First--"price gouging". I have a strong hatred of the use of this phrase in wet shaving. The reason is pretty simple--price gouging, as a marketing practice, typically involves necessities and goods required for survival being priced outrageously during times of specific shortage. Good examples of this are jacking the price of bottled water during a drought or contamination scare. Increasing the price drastically of curative medicines during a disease epidemic or outbreak. Driving the cost of food skywards during a famine.

These are prime examples of actual "price gouging", and it is unethical, immoral, and illegal.

Raising the price on a commodity or luxury item and placing it on the public market is not price gouging. It is retail. No matter how high those prices go, there is no requirement for those products to be purchased. There is a choice. This is not price gouging, it is a free market.

We can sit here and debate the semantics all day, but the bottom line is pretty simple: "price gouging" is specifically being used here to cast a negative and derogatory light on retail practices by merchants of luxury goods. The specific intent is to cast the high price of these products as exorbitant, unnecessary, and wrongful. These are luxury items. Their price is set explicitly by the willingness of the market to spend, NOT driven by the necessity of life. "Price gouging" here, is inaccurate and in poor taste, at best. At worst, it is an attempt to slander the character of retailers selling luxury items for luxury prices.

Advertising falsely, and using inaccurate product ingredients and labeling are all issues to be addressed with the FDA and Better Business Bureau. Those are the folks that control and enforce regulations designed to improve consumer confidence and marketing accuracy.

Reviews on a private website are privately owned. The owner of that website legally has a right to add or remove any piece of data they choose. Reviews fall under that category, and while some might find the practice distasteful, it is very common for major retailers with websites to eliminate negative reviews of products. It happens all over the place...

I disagree with your point on price gouging but I'll take it to the PMs as it's political/economical in nature.

I disagree with your point on price gouging but I'll take it to the PMs as it's political/economical in nature.

Even, for example, when a seller takes a Chinese copy of an 85-year-old razor, rebrands it, falsely claims it is his patented and proprietary design, and marks it up 400%?

I disagree with your point on price gouging but I'll take it to the PMs as it's political/economical in nature.

Even, for example, when a seller takes a Chinese copy of an 85-year-old razor, rebrands it, falsely claims it is his patented and proprietary design, and marks it up 400%?

That is still not an example of price gouging. No one is forced to purchase that item to survive.

Marko, I wasn't espousing Williams as something special. It was simply an example of the very basic to achieve the task. I'm a soap maker! I promote Black Tie No. 13 soap and our accompanying oils. Even ours is a "luxury".

I got that. I think my point was that at some point the experience is so degraded as to cease really being a "shave". Yes I will concede that you can get a reasonable shave from Williams and even a can of gillette foam and a cartridge razor but if we go with this logic and take it to absurdity (which is always fun) then scraping one's face with a piece of flaked obsidian is a basic shave and anything else is just pure luxury. As an aside, have you seen the youtube video of the fellow both flaking and shaving with obsidian? Interesting but if that was our only option beards would be very popular indeed and the same could be said about Williams. I distinguish between a shave as the mechanical scraping of hair follicles from one's face from a decent shave that leaves one content with smooth skin and no facial injury/irritation. I guess its the difference between a shave and a proper shave and that would be subjective.

One more on the subject of freebies to reviewers - for me the value of these reviews is less about what the talking head is saying and more about just seeing and becoming aware of new products. From that perspective it doesn't matter that the reviewer got it for free or not because, once aware of the new product I'll conduct my own due diligence if my interest is aroused. For example, I'd check out the artisan's website, i'd look on DFS for what people might think, particularly those members that I know from experience look for similar qualities in product as I look for. After all that if I take the plunge and buy then its on me and I wouldn't blame the reviewer if it turns out I don't like the product for whatever reason. Personally I'd love to be able to touch and smell every product first hand before buying. If I could do that I know I'd have at least half as much stuff. For this members that live in New York and can wander into Pharmacy Pasteur whenever they want, all I can say is...lucky

"One more on the subject of freebies to reviewers - for me the value of these reviews is less about what the talking head is saying and more about just seeing and becoming aware of new products. From that perspective it doesn't matter that the reviewer got it for free or not because, once aware of the new product I'll conduct my own due diligence if my interest is aroused. For example, I'd check out the artisan's website, i'd look on DFS for what people might think, particularly those members that I know from experience look for similar qualities in product as I look for. After all that if I take the plunge and buy then its on me and I wouldn't blame the reviewer if it turns out I don't like the product for whatever reason. Personally I'd love to be able to touch and smell every product first hand before buying. If I could do that I know I'd have at least half as much stuff. For this members that live in New York and can wander into Pharmacy Pasteur whenever they want, all I can say is...luckySmile"
Pretty much my point exactly. For us it's about AWARENESS. We have an awesome product, just needs to touch more cheeks.

Well, I can say that in the case of Black Tie specifically, I would never have known about them without the STL meet up in June. My wife particularly loves the balm they make. Yes, we did get a free batch of it at the meet. But it was a great product to her and we have ordered and paid for additional product.

Well, I can say that in the case of Black Tie specifically, I would never have known about them without the STL meet up in June. My wife particularly loves the balm they make. Yes, we did get a free batch of it at the meet. But it was a great product to her and we have ordered and paid for additional product.

I concur about the balm. It is excellent.

Thanks guys. Since you mentioned it, (if allowed) we'll make you guys the first to know. As of August 1, 2017, all of the Black Tie Razor Company Balms will feature Thayer's Witch Hazel. Our balm already contains WH, but we decided going to the Thayer's will make a great balm even better!

I disagree with your point on price gouging but I'll take it to the PMs as it's political/economical in nature.

Even, for example, when a seller takes a Chinese copy of an 85-year-old razor, rebrands it, falsely claims it is his patented and proprietary design, and marks it up 400%?

buyers need to do their due diligence before buying stuff, plain and simple.

Even, for example, when a seller takes a Chinese copy of an 85-year-old razor, rebrands it, falsely claims it is his patented and proprietary design, and marks it up 400%?

That would be a poor value for the money, not price gouging. "Poor value for the money", "ripoff" and "price gouging" mean the same thing in common usage, however.

https://definitions.uslegal.com/p/price-gouging/

The simple solution is to not buy anything that is not a good value. Doing one's homework is part of that, and helps minimize bad purchases.

If the seller knowingly makes false statements about a razor, that could be considered fraud. To which razor are you referring anyways? A Chinese copy of the Gillette Fatboy?