Shaving Cream/Soap Samples – Lessons Learned, A Ton of Empty Jars and Process Results

VALUE


Getting a bunch of scores is fine, but sooner or later the rubber hits the road and I have to decide how to actually spend money. If two products are scored the same and one cost more than the other, well I like to be as frugal as the next guy.  One is going get the money and the other gets kicked to the street. The problem comes in with the concept of Diminishing Returns.

Some people think that just because product A costs twice as much as product B, that it should be twice as good. That is not how life works. If you buy a $30,000 car, a $60,000 car is not going to be twice as “good” nor a $300,000 car a magnitude better. The Law of Diminishing Returns eventually rears its head. This is a typical chart on the law of diminishing returns. As the performance rises, the cost is going to go way, way up. Only you can decide if that increased cost is worth it to you.



So lets first talk about cost/oz. To be very clear, the amount of money you spend for a product means NOTHING here. You really need to be talking about the cost of the consumable product, not the cost of some container. I have not discussed any product names but this is trivial to find out. There are some soaps in container that cost 5 times the amount of refill. If you want to spend that money, that's fine, but that is NOT the cost of the consumable. Don't whine that its too expensive. That is the cost of the container. This is about the cost of the soap itself.

Some people might not like this but this is what I got. I can only conclude that “in general” you get what you pay for.  The trend line is clear. However, this is just a generalization as some items are measured in actual weight oz and some in fluid oz. While they are the same with water, it’s not true with everything but its close enough for a rough comparison.  Note the clear anomalies. Some lower priced products were fairly good while some higher priced products – not so much. However, in general, the trend line is very clear. For the most part, you get what you pay for. All other things being equal. don’t let anyone try to tell you otherwise. Decide for yourself. But don't plan on any free rides.



However, the cost/oz doesn’t really tell me what I want to know. The real measure of value is the cost /shave, NOT the cost by weight and certainly NOT the cost of the product. All soaps are NOT created equal. Soft soaps are consumed faster than hard soaps. Brush choice and technique play a huge factor in this.

This requires a detailed account of product consumption, which is both tedious and tiresome, requiring a LOT of dedication. But more so it requires consistency in test procedures. For example, if one uses a floppy, thin brush on a soft soap and then a Simpsons Chubby on the next, there will be zero consistency, as much lather will be thrown away in the Chubby. If you want to be frugal in consumable consumption, do not use a dense brush.

The only true way to measure this is to actually measure consumption.  Complicating all this is the issue of human nature. For example, I do not make fancy brush shots with beautiful lathers. I make enough lather to do the job and move on. Everyone’s idea of how much lather to make will be different. So this is what I found based on actual usage and measurement of a handful of the soaps/creams with small sample sizes (if samples sizes were large, this would take decades).

I tried to determine “value” based upon shaves/gram and this is what I got with limited patience and extrapolating some. I wish I had recorded every shave but that is for someone with much more patience than me. I only started to measure this stuff at the end and maybe in a couple of years I might have far more extensive data, but its too tedious and time consuming so I doubt it. In any case, its good enough for me.

I only care about the general trend. The actual numbers don't matter. The actual numbers don’t matter. What matters is the relationship of costs. If I got some of this wrong, in the big scheme of things it doesn’t matter. It’s the relative difference between costs that matter.



So what do these early results/estimates saying to me?  So far, I'm fairly convinced the "good stuff" costs about a quarter more per shave than the middling stuff. Yeah, one product was WAY out of sync with everything else. So forget about it for now. I have to decide if two quarters is worth it. But one quarter? What can you buy for a quarter today? Anything?  Let's see. I can:

• drive 1.5 miles
  
• buy 1/16 of a cup of starbucks coffee
  
• buy 1/3 of a bagel
  
• buy 1/5 of an ice cream cone
  
• buy 1/4 of a candy bar
  
•  etc etc etc
  

In other words, a quarter buys you less than nothing today. But it can buy you, if you decide, the difference between a good shaving experience and a better one (depending upon your attributes). Since I know I will probably spend 25 cents in a day in a way I have no idea but will be meaningless, I can set my spending priorities in a way that permit me to use that 25 cents in a way I find more pleasing. Maybe I combine errand trips to stores in a week into one trip vice five. Maybe I buy some groceries on sale vice at full price. But in some way, I can find $1.75/week somewhere.

I think.

And this is one of the real benefits of a cheap hobby. In the end, it really is cheap. We are talking pocket change on a daily basis, for the hobbyist, between the middle of the pack and the good stuff (according to how I value my attributes - yours can be different).

As said earlier. I do not collect anything. Any brush I buy I will use forever. Any razor I will use forever. I did buy a bowl, and I will use it until it breaks. But all of them are tools. Since collecting is not my thing, I can spend an extra quarter a day on a luxury -

hopefully

VALUE


Getting a bunch of scores is fine, but sooner or later the rubber hits the road and I have to decide how to actually spend money. If two products are scored the same and one cost more than the other, well I like to be as frugal as the next guy.  One is going get the money and the other gets kicked to the street. The problem comes in with the concept of Diminishing Returns.

Some people think that just because product A costs twice as much as product B, that it should be twice as good. That is not how life works. If you buy a $30,000 car, a $60,000 car is not going to be twice as “good” nor a $300,000 car a magnitude better. The Law of Diminishing Returns eventually rears its head. This is a typical chart on the law of diminishing returns. As the performance rises, the cost is going to go way, way up. Only you can decide if that increased cost is worth it to you.



So lets first talk about cost/oz. To be very clear, the amount of money you spend for a product means NOTHING here. You really need to be talking about the cost of the consumable product, not the cost of some container. I have not discussed any product names but this is trivial to find out. There are some soaps in container that cost 5 times the amount of refill. If you want to spend that money, that's fine, but that is NOT the cost of the consumable. Don't whine that its too expensive. That is the cost of the container. This is about the cost of the soap itself.

Some people might not like this but this is what I got. I can only conclude that “in general” you get what you pay for.  The trend line is clear. However, this is just a generalization as some items are measured in actual weight oz and some in fluid oz. While they are the same with water, it’s not true with everything but its close enough for a rough comparison.  Note the clear anomalies. Some lower priced products were fairly good while some higher priced products – not so much. However, in general, the trend line is very clear. For the most part, you get what you pay for. All other things being equal. don’t let anyone try to tell you otherwise. Decide for yourself. But don't plan on any free rides.



However, the cost/oz doesn’t really tell me what I want to know. The real measure of value is the cost /shave, NOT the cost by weight and certainly NOT the cost of the product. All soaps are NOT created equal. Soft soaps are consumed faster than hard soaps. Brush choice and technique play a huge factor in this.

This requires a detailed account of product consumption, which is both tedious and tiresome, requiring a LOT of dedication. But more so it requires consistency in test procedures. For example, if one uses a floppy, thin brush on a soft soap and then a Simpsons Chubby on the next, there will be zero consistency, as much lather will be thrown away in the Chubby. If you want to be frugal in consumable consumption, do not use a dense brush.

The only true way to measure this is to actually measure consumption.  Complicating all this is the issue of human nature. For example, I do not make fancy brush shots with beautiful lathers. I make enough lather to do the job and move on. Everyone’s idea of how much lather to make will be different. So this is what I found based on actual usage and measurement of a handful of the soaps/creams with small sample sizes (if samples sizes were large, this would take decades).

I tried to determine “value” based upon shaves/gram and this is what I got with limited patience and extrapolating some. I wish I had recorded every shave but that is for someone with much more patience than me. I only started to measure this stuff at the end and maybe in a couple of years I might have far more extensive data, but its too tedious and time consuming so I doubt it. In any case, its good enough for me.

I only care about the general trend. The actual numbers don't matter. The actual numbers don’t matter. What matters is the relationship of costs. If I got some of this wrong, in the big scheme of things it doesn’t matter. It’s the relative difference between costs that matter.



So what do these early results/estimates saying to me?  So far, I'm fairly convinced the "good stuff" costs about a quarter more per shave than the middling stuff. Yeah, one product was WAY out of sync with everything else. So forget about it for now. I have to decide if two quarters is worth it. But one quarter? What can you buy for a quarter today? Anything?  Let's see. I can:

• drive 1.5 miles
  
• buy 1/16 of a cup of starbucks coffee
  
• buy 1/3 of a bagel
  
• buy 1/5 of an ice cream cone
  
• buy 1/4 of a candy bar
  
•  etc etc etc
  

In other words, a quarter buys you less than nothing today. But it can buy you, if you decide, the difference between a good shaving experience and a better one (depending upon your attributes). Since I know I will probably spend 25 cents in a day in a way I have no idea but will be meaningless, I can set my spending priorities in a way that permit me to use that 25 cents in a way I find more pleasing. Maybe I combine errand trips to stores in a week into one trip vice five. Maybe I buy some groceries on sale vice at full price. But in some way, I can find $1.75/week somewhere.

I think.

And this is one of the real benefits of a cheap hobby. In the end, it really is cheap. We are talking pocket change on a daily basis, for the hobbyist, between the middle of the pack and the good stuff (according to how I value my attributes - yours can be different).

As said earlier. I do not collect anything. Any brush I buy I will use forever. Any razor I will use forever. I did buy a bowl, and I will use it until it breaks. But all of them are tools. Since collecting is not my thing, I can spend an extra quarter a day on a luxury -

hopefully

Great review, I'm really enjoying it so far. However, I'm inclined to say (from your first histogram) that you don't really see a trend line, but more of a cutoff price/oz. There's a clear value, when passed, that the score/performance stays the same (top scores). The conclusion could be that beyond this price per oz, a "bad" product is a fluke, so anything beyond this price point is practically a winner.

Great review, I'm really enjoying it so far. However, I'm inclined to say (from your first histogram) that you don't really see a trend line, but more of a cutoff price/oz. There's a clear value, when passed, that the score/performance stays the same (top scores). The conclusion could be that beyond this price per oz, a "bad" product is a fluke, so anything beyond this price point is practically a winner.

Thank you. YES, you can also say that. Once you get to a certain price point, your good. Below a certain point, all bets are off. Its hit or miss.

So I had a little epiphany while reading your thread. Concerning full sized soap containers, the plastic screw top tubs to be specific, wouldnt it be cool if the soaper offered a discount for "refills"? The only fancy container I have is TABAC. The rest are the plastic tubs. If part of the soapers cost they pass on to us is the tub, how about a refill and I just pay for soap and shipping? Stirling and QCS still sell individual pucks. The device that B&M used to form/cut pucks broke so he just pours the hot process soap into tubs only. I have a wide range of mugs and bowls of varying sizes and they are all sourced from thrift stores and they are perfect for the individual pucks I buy. In fact, I end up transferring the majority of my soaps because I enjoy mug lathering much more than face lathering, a technique I was forced to learn thanks to the containers my preferred soaps were sent to me in.

I'm like you, and maybe a few others, and have a box full of tins and tubs that I just cant bring myself to throw away, yet chances are I probly am not ever going to use them again for anything. Just imagine all the different types of tubs and tins the various soapers use. The next logical question a consumer would ask a soaper is if they would fill a tub that didnt originate from that particular maker. I agree with you that I want to only buy soap, not a 30 dollar bowl with 10 dollars worth of soap in it. I know soapers might have concern with health and safety, reusing old tubs returned from customers. I get that.

But I am thinking a postage paid return shipper sent with the original order. The fee for the soaper wont kick in till the customer sends it back (Is that possible?). Then the customer includes payment in the shipper for the refill and reshipment.

If the cost of our preferred soap is in part the tub it comes in, how can we help the soaper alleviate that cost so we dont incur it? I know this would be more a question for Will or Chris, but since your thread spurred my idea, I just had to type it up before I forgot

I had no idea soap was so complex! I had thought it was just soap.

By the way, Mystic Water, also, still sells refill pucks.

Grim, are you a scientist in your daily life or an engineer ?
Just curious.

I'm sorry, but you go over board with this - it's just shaving, a hobby that you can't put into a matrix, it's all about subjective personal fickle human beings.
You also went overboard in another post.

Take it easy man, grab a cold beer or a glass of wine, ease on down.

IT'S JUST SHAVING !!!

? The only fancy container I have is TABAC. The rest are the plastic tubs.

Yes, I find it quite irritating that some insist on forcing on the consumer fancy containers for consumable items. I just shove soap into cheap tupperware containers. It works fine.

By the way, Mystic Water, also, still sells refill pucks.  

 I got some of those

it's just shaving, a hobby that you can't put into a matrix, it's all about subjective personal fickle human beings.

Subjective, objective, .... no standards ... fluid ounces, weight ounces, grams, millilters, different size containers, hard soaps, croaps, creams, brushless - all way too confusing.

Grim, are you a scientist in your daily life or an engineer ?
Just curious.

I'm sorry, but you go over board with this - it's just shaving, a hobby that you can't put into a matrix, it's all about subjective personal fickle human beings.
You also went overboard in another post.

Take it easy man, grab a cold beer or a glass of wine, ease on down.

IT'S JUST SHAVING !!!

Claus, while I agree with your thoughts here, I have to say that I was fascinated with this thread and the detail that grim went into.  For me, it goes to show how varied our thoughts are on the subject of shaving and it just proves that our members truly make this a community.  Without our various thoughts, and the way we approach them, DFS would be a very bland site, indeed.

Look at it this way, when it comes to what eau de toilette, cologne, or scented aftershave splash I put on, my basic thought (and probably most folks who use these) is what smells good.  The conversation could end there.  However, when I need more details, such as longevity, complementary blends, what chemical is used that makes a scent unattractive to me, I turn to NeoXerxes, onethinline, and of course CHSeifert.  Why?  Because, obviously, you gents have more detailed answers than I might think about.  As I stated, a community.

Look at it this way, when it comes to what eau de toilette, cologne, or scented aftershave splash I put on, my basic thought (and probably most folks who use these) is what smells good.  The conversation could end there.  However, when I need more details, such as longevity, complementary blends, what chemical is used that makes a scent unattractive to me, I turn to NeoXerxes, onethinline, and of course CHSeifert.  Why?  Because, obviously, you gents have more detailed answers than I might think about.  As I stated, a community.

Good point. If I wanted to talk aftershaves, my knowledge is zero. Like you said, it smells OK or don't. But it doesn't really matter because I don't get to decide anyway. That's why the better half does  

G you go over board with this - it's just shaving, a hobby that you can't put into a matrix, it's all about subjective personal fickle human beings.
You also went overboard in another post.  

When I first started looking at this, I found stuff like this

http://sharpologist.com/2010/07/interact...e-map.html and thought  WHAT? Who does that? People actually map their beards? Why?

and then I read acroynms like this:

ATG, WTG, XTG, and thought WHAT? Who cares about this. And who names this stuff? Nobody taught me to shave. Like Duh. Why does everything need to be on Youtube. This isn't brain surgery.

and then I read thread after thread where people talked about how much money they saved. WOW, the best thing about this is it only cost me 8 cents/shave!!!! But what they didn't tell you was that they also owned 20 razors, 30 brushes, and 200 soaps. It was so bad that they had a name for it. 3017 . I though WHAT? 3017? Oh yeah, it would be 3017 before they could use up all the stuff they bought. So I thought cool. They got a hobby. Its cool to collect stuff. Lots of people collect stuff. But I don't view it that way. Nothing has changed in 50 years. As you said, its just shaving. And a brush is a tool. A razor blade or a soap is a consumable item to me.

Then I heard the most overused acronym ripped directly from the EPA and Monroneys - Your Mileages May Vary (YMMV). And this is true. Everyone is different. So I though exactly what I said ... My goal was simple – find the top five so soaps or creams I would be willing to use forever.  And since we are talking soap here and not liquid gold, the cost really isn't all that important. Life is to short as it is. It's not like I'm buying a yacht and heading to Monaco for the weekend.

But to get to the end goal, I had to try stuff. And that is where I am. I hope this helped  you understand. I am only discussing process here.  I know I am not the first to study this and I know I wont be the last

Google cost/shave and I can find thread after thread where some people have tediously and with great tenacity calculated exactly the cost shave from the cheapest Artisans to the more expensive stuff. And its pretty consistent. The expensive stuff cost about a quarter more per shave. The pioneers have gone before me. And they are better men than me because there is no way I'd have the patience to track and write down detail like that.

Besides, its fun.

I for one really appreciate in depth analysis. Thanks much grim .