RayClem's Blade Evaluations

Occasionally I use a Dorco twin blade razor at the gym with Cremo brushless shave creme for a quick double pass shave. 

It is the worst shave I get in recent memory.  Horrible.

The Dorco razors supplied by the gym are disposable twin blades with a fixed head.  The Cremo instructions say to wet your beard, apply a few dabs to your face  and then keep working water into it with your  cupped hand so it is fully spread out into a watery film.  I have not  tried it with a brush.  If I am gong to use a brush I may as well use a standard shave soap and face lather.  I am going to finish the tube so I have really tried to work with it.  I think if you have a very light beard, and can get by with a single pass it might work OK because it is slick.  But for anybody else, I just don't see the point of it.

The problem with following the Cremo instructions is that it is difficult incorporating sufficient water into the proto-lather using only your fingertips. That is why I tried using a synthetic brush. The resulting lather is super slick, but it is not protective enough for my skin. Since you have a light beard, you might be able to get away with it. The problem with using a regular shave soap is that you really should be leaving the top off of the tub to allow moisture to evaporate after the shave. That is difficult to do when when the tub is stored in a locker or gym bag. That is the advantage of a cream in a tube in that type of situation.

The Dorco razors supplied by the gym are disposable twin blades with a fixed head.  The Cremo instructions say to wet your beard, apply a few dabs to your face  and then keep working water into it with your  cupped hand so it is fully spread out into a watery film.  I have not  tried it with a brush.  If I am gong to use a brush I may as well use a standard shave soap and face lather.  I am going to finish the tube so I have really tried to work with it.  I think if you have a very light beard, and can get by with a single pass it might work OK because it is slick.  But for anybody else, I just don't see the point of it.

The problem with following the Cremo instructions is that it is difficult incorporating sufficient water into the proto-lather using only your fingertips. That is why I tried using a synthetic brush. The resulting lather is super slick, but it is not protective enough for my skin. Since you have a light beard, you might be able to get away with it. The problem with using a regular shave soap is that you really should be leaving the top off of the tub to allow moisture to evaporate after the shave. That is difficult to do when when the tub is stored in a locker or gym bag. That is the advantage of a cream in a tube in that type of situation.

Actually, I have a heavy Mediterranean beard, fortuanelty mostly white now. I do use a lot of water with Cremo (cupped handfuls) and I try to work it in to the point where my palm is sore from rubbing my beard. It just doesn't have much cushion, and with using crappy blades and excess pressure, too much exfoliation occurs. I never get cuts or weepers, but my A/S sure does sting! There are cremes in tubes, like Gillette Pure that you can use with a brush and they work fine. No need to go the Cremo brushless route unless it is going to save you a lot of time. For me, it doesn't and results in a poor one day shave.

This is almost lost in the thread.  

Here is a link to Ray’s spreadsheet. 


https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/71ttt15wy...b&e=1&dl=0

This is almost lost in the thread.  

Here is a link to Ray’s spreadsheet. 


https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/71ttt15wy...b&e=1&dl=0

This was a life saver!!!! Thank you!

Since I got my Karve Overlander I can now go atg and and do a 3-pass shave (wtg, atg, atg). I used to have more leniency with blades but the atg pass really requires a sharp blade. Unfortunately, I also have sensitive skin so that complicates the matter regarding harshness. 

What really has been disappointing to me is blade consistency. I've been using the same routine and products for over a year and I get amazing shaves one day...change to a fresh blade do the same thing and get a different result. I suppose my lather could be off but I've been doing this for over a decade and know how to lather. 

My best shaves have been with Gillette platinum and Personna Lab Blue. However, I've also gotten awful shaves with them. No idea what is going on. I put a GP under a usb microscope and it didn't look pretty. I did 5 of them and they all looked like the sputtering created craters in the bevel. While I enjoy shaving, inspecting each blade before I use it seems a bit overkill. I'm not even sure if that is the problem. You can't really look down at the apex with my setup. SMH

Since I got my Karve Overlander I can now go atg and and do a 3-pass shave (wtg, atg, atg). I used to have more leniency with blades but the atg pass really requires a sharp blade. Unfortunately, I also have sensitive skin so that complicates the matter regarding harshness. 

What really has been disappointing to me is blade consistency. I've been using the same routine and products for over a year and I get amazing shaves one day...change to a fresh blade do the same thing and get a different result. I suppose my lather could be off but I've been doing this for over a decade and know how to lather. 

My best shaves have been with Gillette platinum and Personna Lab Blue. However, I've also gotten awful shaves with them. No idea what is going on. I put a GP under a usb microscope and it didn't look pretty. I did 5 of them and they all looked like the sputtering created craters in the bevel. While I enjoy shaving, inspecting each blade before I use it seems a bit overkill. I'm not even sure if that is the problem. You can't really look down at the apex with my setup. SMH

The production equipment at the PPI facility in Russia that produced the Gillette Platinum blades for many years was quite old. I never really liked the older GP blades although many swear that the GP blades made with Swedish steel were top tier. To me, the more recent Gillette Platinum blades in the new blue packaging were better than some older blades. These blades a made in China. I have not used enough of these blades to determine their consistency.

https://www.amazon.com/Gillette-Platinum...0B5FSHYP7/

Technically, there are no more Lab Blue blades. AccuTech Blades has rebranded their production. The blades once called Personna Comfort Coated (lab blue) are now AccuForge Microcoated. However, they still market a Personna blade for barber's use. The problem I had with the Lab Blue blades is that they lacked sharpness out of the wrapper due to the thick Comfort coating. After the coating wore off, the blades were quite sharp, but then they were not as smooth. The blades once referred to as Personna Med Prep blades are now being sold as AccuThrive Prep blades. I always though the only difference between the Lab Blue and Med Prep blades was an extra cleaning step to make them suitable for hospital use. However, when I tried the AccuThrive Prep blades I was pleased with the performance, but since the blades are priced for the medical trade, there are a lot of less expensive blades that perform as well or better than the AccuThrive blade.

If you have multiple razors, one thing you might try is using one razor for your WTG and XTG passes and then use your Overlander equipped with a super sharp blade for your ATG pass. As long as you are using a high quality shave soap that is properly hydrated, you should not experience irritation, even with sensitive skin. Just make sure you use minimal pressure on your shave strokes. 

If you need suggestions on shaving soaps, send me a PM.

Since I got my Karve Overlander I can now go atg and and do a 3-pass shave (wtg, atg, atg). I used to have more leniency with blades but the atg pass really requires a sharp blade. Unfortunately, I also have sensitive skin so that complicates the matter regarding harshness. 

What really has been disappointing to me is blade consistency. I've been using the same routine and products for over a year and I get amazing shaves one day...change to a fresh blade do the same thing and get a different result. I suppose my lather could be off but I've been doing this for over a decade and know how to lather. 

My best shaves have been with Gillette platinum and Personna Lab Blue. However, I've also gotten awful shaves with them. No idea what is going on. I put a GP under a usb microscope and it didn't look pretty. I did 5 of them and they all looked like the sputtering created craters in the bevel. While I enjoy shaving, inspecting each blade before I use it seems a bit overkill. I'm not even sure if that is the problem. You can't really look down at the apex with my setup. SMH

The production equipment at the PPI facility in Russia that produced the Gillette Platinum blades for many years was quite old. I never really liked the older GP blades although many swear that the GP blades made with Swedish steel were top tier. To me, the more recent Gillette Platinum blades in the new blue packaging were better than some older blades. These blades a made in China. I have not used enough of these blades to determine their consistency.

https://www.amazon.com/Gillette-Platinum...0B5FSHYP7/

Technically, there are no more Lab Blue blades. AccuTech Blades has rebranded their production. The blades once called Personna Comfort Coated (lab blue) are now AccuForge Microcoated. However, they still market a Personna blade for barber's use. The problem I had with the Lab Blue blades is that they lacked sharpness out of the wrapper due to the thick Comfort coating. After the coating wore off, the blades were quite sharp, but then they were not as smooth. The blades once referred to as Personna Med Prep blades are now being sold as AccuThrive Prep blades. I always though the only difference between the Lab Blue and Med Prep blades was an extra cleaning step to make them suitable for hospital use. However, when I tried the AccuThrive Prep blades I was pleased with the performance, but since the blades are priced for the medical trade, there are a lot of less expensive blades that perform as well or better than the AccuThrive blade.

If you have multiple razors, one thing you might try is using one razor for your WTG and XTG passes and then use your Overlander equipped with a super sharp blade for your ATG pass. As long as you are using a high quality shave soap that is properly hydrated, you should not experience irritation, even with sensitive skin. Just make sure you use minimal pressure on your shave strokes. 

If you need suggestions on shaving soaps, send me a PM.

That's very interesting regarding the Gillette Platinum's. I have the darker blue packaging ones and they are definitely hit or miss. Sometimes I use them for a head shave and then the face shave is out of this world good as if the head shave is taming them down or something...but this is not always the case according to my shave journal data. My personna lab blues are probably 7+ years old from the old company.

I've been contemplating doing what you said regarding multiple razors or multiple blades in the shave just to limit damage to my face a bit. I'm also contemplating getting back into straight razor shaving (at least for everything but the ATG pass). The ability to get a better natural edge vs. a machine edge is very appealing to me. I have not yet mastered honing due to a new baby and limited time but its on my list of things to do. Thanks again.

Since I got my Karve Overlander I can now go atg and and do a 3-pass shave (wtg, atg, atg). I used to have more leniency with blades but the atg pass really requires a sharp blade. Unfortunately, I also have sensitive skin so that complicates the matter regarding harshness. 

What really has been disappointing to me is blade consistency. I've been using the same routine and products for over a year and I get amazing shaves one day...change to a fresh blade do the same thing and get a different result. I suppose my lather could be off but I've been doing this for over a decade and know how to lather. 

My best shaves have been with Gillette platinum and Personna Lab Blue. However, I've also gotten awful shaves with them. No idea what is going on. I put a GP under a usb microscope and it didn't look pretty. I did 5 of them and they all looked like the sputtering created craters in the bevel. While I enjoy shaving, inspecting each blade before I use it seems a bit overkill. I'm not even sure if that is the problem. You can't really look down at the apex with my setup. SMH

The production equipment at the PPI facility in Russia that produced the Gillette Platinum blades for many years was quite old. I never really liked the older GP blades although many swear that the GP blades made with Swedish steel were top tier. To me, the more recent Gillette Platinum blades in the new blue packaging were better than some older blades. These blades a made in China. I have not used enough of these blades to determine their consistency.

https://www.amazon.com/Gillette-Platinum...0B5FSHYP7/

Technically, there are no more Lab Blue blades. AccuTech Blades has rebranded their production. The blades once called Personna Comfort Coated (lab blue) are now AccuForge Microcoated. However, they still market a Personna blade for barber's use. The problem I had with the Lab Blue blades is that they lacked sharpness out of the wrapper due to the thick Comfort coating. After the coating wore off, the blades were quite sharp, but then they were not as smooth. The blades once referred to as Personna Med Prep blades are now being sold as AccuThrive Prep blades. I always though the only difference between the Lab Blue and Med Prep blades was an extra cleaning step to make them suitable for hospital use. However, when I tried the AccuThrive Prep blades I was pleased with the performance, but since the blades are priced for the medical trade, there are a lot of less expensive blades that perform as well or better than the AccuThrive blade.

If you have multiple razors, one thing you might try is using one razor for your WTG and XTG passes and then use your Overlander equipped with a super sharp blade for your ATG pass. As long as you are using a high quality shave soap that is properly hydrated, you should not experience irritation, even with sensitive skin. Just make sure you use minimal pressure on your shave strokes. 

If you need suggestions on shaving soaps, send me a PM.

That's very interesting regarding the Gillette Platinum's. I have the darker blue packaging ones and they are definitely hit or miss. Sometimes I use them for a head shave and then the face shave is out of this world good as if the head shave is taming them down or something...but this is not always the case according to my shave journal data. My personna lab blues are probably 7+ years old from the old company.

I've been contemplating doing what you said regarding multiple razors or multiple blades in the shave just to limit damage to my face a bit. I'm also contemplating getting back into straight razor shaving (at least for everything but the ATG pass). The ability to get a better natural edge vs. a machine edge is very appealing to me. I have not yet mastered honing due to a new baby and limited time but its on my list of things to do. Thanks again.

Unless you are restoring a vintage straight razor or a badly damaged SR edge with needs the bevel reset, do not be intimidated by touch up honing of a SR. If you start off with a decent edge, maintaining it is merely a few stokes on a 8k or 6k cheap Chinese synthetic wet stone, followed by some polishing on an Arkansas stone or a pasted linen strop. If you haven't damaged the edge, that is all that is necessary. You might want to buy a 1k/6k combination stone that you can also use to keep your kitchen knives sharp thereby justifying the investment. Also, there is no shame in using a safety razor for your third/clean up pass. Some spots are hard to get with a SR depending on the direction of the pass and the degree of arthritis you have in one of your shoulders. A lot of what you read on forums like this from people really serious about honing SR using lost of stones and multi-step progressions are maintaining a very, very fine edge; like Feather Artist blade edge sharp. Most of us don't need or want anything that sharp to do our SR shaves. Keep in mind, Italian barbers for most of history only use a "barber's stone" and a strop to maintain their razors.

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Unless you are restoring a vintage straight razor or a badly damaged SR edge with needs the bevel reset, do not be intimidated by touch up honing of a SR.  If you start off with a decent edge, maintaining it is merely a few stokes on a 8k or 6k cheap Chinese synthetic wet stone, followed by some polishing on an Arkansas stone or a pasted linen strop.  If you haven't damaged the edge, that is all that is necessary.  You might want to buy a 1k/6k combination stone that you can also use to keep your kitchen knives sharp thereby justifying the investment.  Also, there is no shame in using a safety razor for your third/clean up pass.  Some spots are hard to get with a SR depending on the direction of the pass and the degree of arthritis you have in one of your shoulders.  A lot of what you read on forums like this from people really serious about honing SR using lost of stones and  multi-step progressions are maintaining a very, very fine edge; like Feather Artist blade edge sharp.  Most of us don't need or want anything that sharp to do our SR shaves.  Keep in mind, Italian barbers for most of history only use a "barber's stone" and a strop to maintain their razors.
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Different individuals have different requirements regarding straight razor edges. Some people can easily shave off an edge honed on an 8K hone. For others (like me) and 8K edge is neither sharp enough nor smooth enough. You are correct that polishing on an Arkansas stone or pasted strop can help. I like my straight razor edges super sharp and super smooth. I consider an 8K stone to be a prefinisher. I will either finish on a  very smooth  natural stone such  as Greek Vermio, Imperia la Roccia, South African Zulu Gray. or French Black Shadow, each of which I consider to finish somewhere around 15K. I also have a Suehiro Gokumyo 20K synthetic (0.5 micron) that can also produce a superb edge. However, even after honing on ultra fine hones, I polish the edge on 0.5, 0.25 and 0.1 micron CBN pastes and sprays. That gives the edge a mirror polish. The resulting edge is super sharp and super smooth, just like I prefer it. Unfortunately, my coarse beard will destroy such an edge in 5-6 shaves and need refreshing. I wish I had a beard and skin that would allow me to use an 8K edge.    

The interesting thing about barber's hones is that most of them were made from carborundum, a stone made from compressed silicon carbide particles. While the particles used to produce these hones were not particularly fine, silicon  carbide is friable. In use, the carbide particles continually break down into ever finer particles. Thus, barber's hones can produce an edge that is better than might be assumed from the  original specifications.

Unless you are restoring a vintage straight razor or a badly damaged SR edge with needs the bevel reset, do not be intimidated by touch up honing of a SR.  If you start off with a decent edge, maintaining it is merely a few stokes on a 8k or 6k cheap Chinese synthetic wet stone, followed by some polishing on an Arkansas stone or a pasted linen strop.  If you haven't damaged the edge, that is all that is necessary.  You might want to buy a 1k/6k combination stone that you can also use to keep your kitchen knives sharp thereby justifying the investment.  Also, there is no shame in using a safety razor for your third/clean up pass.  Some spots are hard to get with a SR depending on the direction of the pass and the degree of arthritis you have in one of your shoulders.  A lot of what you read on forums like this from people really serious about honing SR using lost of stones and  multi-step progressions are maintaining a very, very fine edge; like Feather Artist blade edge sharp.  Most of us don't need or want anything that sharp to do our SR shaves.  Keep in mind, Italian barbers for most of history only use a "barber's stone" and a strop to maintain their razors.
[/quote]


Different individuals have different requirements regarding straight razor edges. Some people can easily shave off an edge honed on an 8K hone. For others (like me) and 8K edge is neither sharp enough nor smooth enough. You are correct that polishing on an Arkansas stone or pasted strop can help. I like my straight razor edges super sharp and super smooth. I consider an 8K stone to be a prefinisher. I will either finish on a  very smooth  natural stone such  as Greek Vermio, Imperia la Roccia, South African Zulu Gray. or French Black Shadow, each of which I consider to finish somewhere around 15K. I also have a Suehiro Gokumyo 20K synthetic (0.5 micron) that can also produce a superb edge. However, even after honing on ultra fine hones, I polish the edge on 0.5, 0.25 and 0.1 micron CBN pastes and sprays. That gives the edge a mirror polish. The resulting edge is super sharp and super smooth, just like I prefer it. Unfortunately, my coarse beard will destroy such an edge in 5-6 shaves and need refreshing. I wish I had a beard and skin that would allow me to use an 8K edge.    

The interesting thing about barber's hones is that most of them were made from carborundum, a stone made from compressed silicon carbide particles. While the particles used to produce these hones were not particularly fine, silicon  carbide is friable. In use, the carbide particles continually break down into ever finer particles. Thus, barber's hones can produce an edge that is better than might be assumed from the  original specifications.
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I think that we are in complete agreement. I can do fine with an 8K edge finished with an Arkansas stone and pasted strop. I do use a safety razor for my clean up pass and generally, that is sharper than my SR. So, if I could (limited range of motion in one shoulder-right side of my neck ATG is impossible because my beard grows West to East there) do my clean up pass with my SR, it would have to be sharper, and would require touch ups more than once or twice per year. A note of caution to Cutty Sharp : if you keep your SR as sharp as RayClem does, then your technique needs to be very, very good and you will be punished for any lack of attention while shaving. A safety razor is far more forgiving of poor technique in the clean up pass than a super sharp SR.