On Chinese copies

I'm interested in z0 and heard it is more aggressive than r41.How does it feel

Raiden Black In my opinion the Mühle R41 is a badly designed and poorly made razor  It has no blade vice, so the blade chatters and you nick yourself.  Also many of the chromed zamac models have a problem with a defective topcap that pins the blade to the baseplate on one side, rendering that side useless for shaving.  I've heard others say that the Z.0 is more aggressive.  I would say that it's simply better made, but it's still a poorly designed razor.  I would not recommend it.

Why do you mean by "no blade vice"?

wyze0ne What do I mean by no blade vice?  Precisely that.  The blade is not securely held between the topcap and the baseplate, anywhere near close to the cutting edge.  Rather it secured in the middle, leaving lots of room for flex and chatter.  I'll give you an example by comparison.  If you put a blade in a Mühle R41 and take a pencil point and push down on the center of the blade edge, you can push it all the way down to the baseplate without much resistance.  If you try the same thing with a Timeless Razor or a Blackland Era, you will break the pencil point but the blade will not flex.  Got it?  I hope so.

wyze0ne What do I mean by no blade vice?  Precisely that.  The blade is not securely held between the topcap and the baseplate, anywhere near close to the cutting edge.  Rather it secured in the middle, leaving lots of room for flex and chatter.  I'll give you an example by comparison.  If you put a blade in a Mühle R41 and take a pencil point and push down on the center of the blade edge, you can push it all the way down to the baseplate without much resistance.  If you try the same thing with a Timeless Razor or a Blackland Era, you will break the pencil point but the blade will not flex.  Got it?  I hope so.

I understand the flex and chatter thing, but I was asking if it was a specific design feature of the razor head itself that causes that to happen or what it might be. I used to have the R41, but I got rid of it for that reason. Otherwise I would do some investigation myself.

wyze0ne What do I mean by no blade vice?  Precisely that.  The blade is not securely held between the topcap and the baseplate, anywhere near close to the cutting edge.  Rather it secured in the middle, leaving lots of room for flex and chatter.  I'll give you an example by comparison.  If you put a blade in a Mühle R41 and take a pencil point and push down on the center of the blade edge, you can push it all the way down to the baseplate without much resistance.  If you try the same thing with a Timeless Razor or a Blackland Era, you will break the pencil point but the blade will not flex.  Got it?  I hope so.

I understand the flex and chatter thing, but I was asking if it was a specific design feature of the razor head itself that causes that to happen or what it might be. I used to have the R41, but I got rid of it for that reason. Otherwise I would do some investigation myself.

wyze0ne Yes, there is a specific design flaw that causes blade instability; the lack of a blade vice.  Here is a picture of an R41 and a Timeless Slim.  Note how the blade on the Timeless is secured close to the cutting edge by the topcap and baseplate forming a vice to hold the blade.  Whereas the only thing securing the blade to the topcap on the R41 are the two high points in the center of the baseplate.  There is a small unsupported blade gap, not visible in this iPhone photo.  It is the lack of support close to the cutting edge that causes the flex and chatter that causes so many people to get nicked by the R41.  I hope this explanation suffices.