New H&S P076 OC 17-4 SS Razor

I am really looking forward to the Ti release, every Ti razor I own has felt softer than its SS counterpart

And you are correct my friend. It’s the best metal in the industry as its biocompatibility on the human anatomy is superior to other metals. Besides allowing cell regeneration from implants that allows the human body to actually attach itself to Ti, the ions in the metal give an extremely passive interaction with the skin. It just works the best...

sorry but it's a razor, not a medical implant. We're not looking for the functional integration of metal and tissue.

As for the 17-4, if it's going to cost more I'd say skip it. Yes it's supposed to take on a better polish, but the current models look pretty damn good and we don't really need the corrosion benefits. A 303, machined version at a lower price would be fine by me.

That wasn’t the point I was trying to make concerning human compatibility with a specific metal alloy. That was just an add-in to my original post concerning 17-4 & Ti relative to those two alloys being equally finished. If you didn’t get it, you didn’t get it.

No need to explain any further.

Feel the need to present the dissenting  perspective relative to SS (generally) vis-a-vis Ti. As background, hail from a science based liberal arts education (if one can label it such) with emphasis on the life sciences, possess strong motorsports experience and even raised by a Russian emigre: point being have known of and favoured Ti throughout life from childhood to present. Short of CF it is by far a favoured material for anything, even applications typically nonmetallic. Have owned multiple Ti razors, paying outrageous premiums in some cases - we all know them: Paradigms, Wolfman&c. Hell, even chased a BBS1 in Ti willingly proffering thousands (and money tight here always).

MY reality with Ti razors did not even remotely meet the expectations, forget the fantasy.

The lightweight literally worked against a good shave no matter how many times tried, no matter how many blades experimented, no matter how prep altered. Well and truly wanted Ti to work but it didn’t, full stop period. Further, the face feel was subtly different BUT not in a good way - it was dead(er) with significantly less feedback. The best comparison would be it was as dead as a Wolfman WR2 is to a WR1. There are those that would welcome that difference and to them legitimately, it is a great option. However, contrary to the zeitgeist, it is most definitively not the panacea to cure humanity’s ills. 

The hyperbole is reminiscent of that surrounding the metal in bleeding edge road racing bicycle circles in the mid 90s. Fortunately, road racing quickly exposes weaknesses. It didn’t take but a very few years for racers to discover that the material absorbs and robs energy unlike any other destroying feel and feedback. These days one can not give away a Ti bike to anybody remotely serious and the material plays a minor component role as fasteners or joiners in cf layup. Pretty much the same can be said of motorsports although it has some uses in motors.

Stainless is the material working best in DE razors for me: status, investment and boasting rights excepted. In fact, given a discount for Ti, I still would eschew its use even preferring pot metal.

As to this passaround, we HAVE been promised a Ti H&S razor as soon as available and the 17-4 list will form the basis for its circulation - of course those wanting only to join for the Ti razor exclusively will be included too. 

Finally, have only used one other 17-4 razor. It was impressive but again the heft, feel and feedback were of the precision experienced using other SS variants albeit with unique characteristics which I STRONGLY prefer. 

OK “Ti”tans of shaving, attack away at the heretic, pitchforks and torches in hand demanding to burn the witch....

Feel the need to present the dissenting  perspective relative to SS (generally) vis-a-vis Ti. As background, hail from a science based liberal arts education (if one can label it such) with emphasis on the life sciences, possess strong motorsports experience and even raised by a Russian emigre: point being have known of and favoured Ti throughout life from childhood to present. Short of CF it is by far a favoured material for anything, even applications typically nonmetallic. Have owned multiple Ti razors, paying outrageous premiums in some cases - we all know them: Paradigms, Wolfman&c. Hell, even chased a BBS1 in Ti willingly proffering thousands (and money tight here always).

MY reality with Ti razors did not even remotely meet the expectations, forget the fantasy.

The lightweight literally worked against a good shave no matter how many times tried, no matter how many blades experimented, no matter how prep altered. Well and truly wanted Ti to work but it didn’t, full stop period. Further, the face feel was subtly different BUT not in a good way - it was dead(er) with significantly less feedback. The best comparison would be it was as dead as a Wolfman WR2 is to a WR1. There are those that would welcome that difference and to them legitimately, it is a great option. However, contrary to the zeitgeist, it is most definitively not the panacea to cure humanity’s ills. 

The hyperbole is reminiscent of that surrounding the metal in bleeding edge road racing bicycle circles in the mid 90s. Fortunately, road racing quickly exposes weaknesses. It didn’t take but a very few years for racers to discover that the material absorbs and robs energy unlike any other destroying feel and feedback. These days one can not give away a Ti bike to anybody remotely serious and the material plays a minor component role as fasteners or joiners in cf layup. Pretty much the same can be said of motorsports although it has some uses in motors.

Stainless is the material working best in DE razors for me: status, investment and boasting rights excepted. In fact, given a discount for Ti, I still would eschew its use even preferring pot metal.

As to this passaround, we HAVE been promised a Ti H&S razor as soon as available and the 17-4 list will form the basis for its circulation - of course those wanting only to join for the Ti razor exclusively will be included too. 

Finally, have only used one other 17-4 razor. It was impressive but again the heft, feel and feedback were of the precision experienced using other SS variants albeit with unique characteristics which I STRONGLY prefer. 

OK “Ti”tans of shaving, attack away at the heretic, pitchforks and torches in hand demanding to burn the witch....

Feel the need to present the dissenting  perspective relative to SS (generally) vis-a-vis Ti. As background, hail from a science based liberal arts education (if one can label it such) with emphasis on the life sciences, possess strong motorsports experience and even raised by a Russian emigre: point being have known of and favoured Ti throughout life from childhood to present. Short of CF it is by far a favoured material for anything, even applications typically nonmetallic. Have owned multiple Ti razors, paying outrageous premiums in some cases - we all know them: Paradigms, Wolfman&c. Hell, even chased a BBS1 in Ti willingly proffering thousands (and money tight here always).

MY reality with Ti razors did not even remotely meet the expectations, forget the fantasy.

The lightweight literally worked against a good shave no matter how many times tried, no matter how many blades experimented, no matter how prep altered. Well and truly wanted Ti to work but it didn’t, full stop period. Further, the face feel was subtly different BUT not in a good way - it was dead(er) with significantly less feedback. The best comparison would be it was as dead as a Wolfman WR2 is to a WR1. There are those that would welcome that difference and to them legitimately, it is a great option. However, contrary to the zeitgeist, it is most definitively not the panacea to cure humanity’s ills. 

The hyperbole is reminiscent of that surrounding the metal in bleeding edge road racing bicycle circles in the mid 90s. Fortunately, road racing quickly exposes weaknesses. It didn’t take but a very few years for racers to discover that the material absorbs and robs energy unlike any other destroying feel and feedback. These days one can not give away a Ti bike to anybody remotely serious and the material plays a minor component role as fasteners or joiners in cf layup. Pretty much the same can be said of motorsports although it has some uses in motors.

Stainless is the material working best in DE razors for me: status, investment and boasting rights excepted. In fact, given a discount for Ti, I still would eschew its use even preferring pot metal.

As to this passaround, we HAVE been promised a Ti H&S razor as soon as available and the 17-4 list will form the basis for its circulation - of course those wanting only to join for the Ti razor exclusively will be included too. 

Finally, have only used one other 17-4 razor. It was impressive but again the heft, feel and feedback were of the precision experienced using other SS variants albeit with unique characteristics which I STRONGLY prefer. 

OK “Ti”tans of shaving, attack away at the heretic, pitchforks and torches in hand demanding to burn the witch....

Naw! Just different strokes for different folks. I happen to like the slightly lighter weight but still the strength of SS, and it feels softer to me.  I still want to try the 17-4 as the Paradigm 17-4 was my favorite razor until the Ti RS10 took its place.

That wasn’t the point I was trying to make concerning human compatibility with a specific metal alloy.  That was just an add-in to my original post concerning 17-4 & Ti relative to those two alloys being equally finished. If you didn’t get it, you didn’t get it.

No need to explain any further.

I got it. YMMV when it comes to face feel. But this brings me back to my question in post #6.  What are the PRACTICAL benefits of producing a razor out of 17-4? Is it just the ability to polish the alloy? The other metal properties cited are irrelevant for the application.

That wasn’t the point I was trying to make concerning human compatibility with a specific metal alloy.  That was just an add-in to my original post concerning 17-4 & Ti relative to those two alloys being equally finished. If you didn’t get it, you didn’t get it.

No need to explain any further.

I got it. YMMV when it comes to face feel. But this brings me back to my question in post #6.  What are the PRACTICAL benefits of producing a razor out of 17-4? Is it just the ability to polish the alloy? The other metal properties cited are irrelevant for the application.

Ok, there are differing thoughts here between you and I. Like I stated previously and as to not sound rude or disrespectful, I neither have the desire nor the inclination to take this thread and turn it into a debate concerning metallurgy and the pros and cons of ionic interaction between alloys and the human anatomy. It would be disrespectful to the intent of what the thread was created for and that is simply to sample and discuss the shaving characteristics between totally different alloy made razors for forum members. And more specifically to do so as Gentlemen while sharing experiences and ideas.

That being said, if you still feel the need to “scratch the itch”, by all means we can continue our discussion in a more private manner via pm. We can then divulge in a philosophical debate  expressing opinions, thoughts or facts to our hearts content on the properties and interactions of each alloy and on how those metals may correlate in a beneficial manner to us shavers.

No hard feelings? Happy shaves amigo...

That wasn’t the point I was trying to make concerning human compatibility with a specific metal alloy.  That was just an add-in to my original post concerning 17-4 & Ti relative to those two alloys being equally finished. If you didn’t get it, you didn’t get it.

No need to explain any further.

I got it. YMMV when it comes to face feel. But this brings me back to my question in post #6.  What are the PRACTICAL benefits of producing a razor out of 17-4? Is it just the ability to polish the alloy? The other metal properties cited are irrelevant for the application.

17-4 has better corrosion resistance, but honestly I don't think you need that kind of high corrosion resistance. 303 is enough. 
Even it is corroded, you can easily clean it. 

But, it is always nice to see that Haircut Co is trying to do his best.
Using more expensive and unique SS in the business,
doing pretty good mirror polishing,
improving head and handle design.
Also Aji has very good customer service. 

I prefer companies going upward rather than downward.

That wasn’t the point I was trying to make concerning human compatibility with a specific metal alloy.  That was just an add-in to my original post concerning 17-4 & Ti relative to those two alloys being equally finished. If you didn’t get it, you didn’t get it.

No need to explain any further.

I got it. YMMV when it comes to face feel. But this brings me back to my question in post #6.  What are the PRACTICAL benefits of producing a razor out of 17-4? Is it just the ability to polish the alloy? The other metal properties cited are irrelevant for the application.

Ok, there are differing thoughts here between you and I. Like I stated previously and as to not sound rude or disrespectful, I neither have the desire nor the inclination to take this thread and turn it into a debate concerning metallurgy and the pros and cons of ionic interaction between alloys and the human anatomy. It would be disrespectful to the intent of what the thread was created for and that is simply to sample and discuss the shaving characteristics between totally different alloy made razors for forum members. And more specifically to do so as Gentlemen while sharing experiences and ideas.

That being said, if you still feel the need to “scratch the itch”, by all means we can continue our discussion in a more private manner via pm. We can then divulge in a philosophical debate  expressing opinions, thoughts or facts to our hearts content on the properties and interactions of each alloy and on how those metals may correlate in a beneficial manner to us shavers.

No hard feelings? Happy shaves amigo...

Shoot me a PM. We may differ in opinion but I would be interested in hearing your POV. At the same time I think it is reasonable to list, if only generally, the pros/cons of the alloy and, if possible, H&S's motivation for its use for all to see. I'm not trying to rag on H&S. Simply flush out the how and why behind 17-4.

^
CK89's response was really helpful. Like surfboat, I was curious. There aren't many 17-4 razors out there, so there's less information to be found on this. As someone living in a tropical environment, I feel more comfortable with greater resistance levels to corrosion / rust.

17-4 handles soon to be polished....