Member
A call to Boycott Karve Razors was started here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Wetshaving/comm...ve_razors/
Member
It's sharp and it cuts. I like it...
Northeast, USA
This thread has had a bit of everything. The Good, The Bad & The Ugly. No, unfortunately Clint Eastwood (Blondie, as Tuco referred to him in the spaghetti western classic) will not make an appearance in this episode. But, I’d like to say something and just add my thoughts to what has started as a semi Cinderella story that has turned into a full fledged self inducing, consuming and inflamed debacle in Christopher Bradley/Karve Razors induced by none other than Chris Kirchen himself.
First the razor and The Good. I own their first release which was their Brass Karve razor with plates ranging from C-F including 2 handles in a 3” & 3.5”lengths. Intelligently designed and manufactured with uncompromising accuracy and precision right down to perhaps one of the smoothest handle attachment to top cap thread stud I’ve experienced. Quality workmanship that rivals those of the elite status that we, as wet shavers across all forums have unofficially created to differentiate between groups of average, good to ultimately, the best in artisan razor manufacturer land. I too consider Karve’s work to be of elite status. The shave quality and the range from which one can choose to adapt their shave technique, skin type and beard growth tendencies are readily apparent in the Karve Shave System. Pick your plate(s), open or closed, grab your length on a handle and get to work. The far majority of users will find something within that range to make it work to near perfection if not perfect. The Karve line up of razors in whatever choice of configuration & alloy will satisfy most, if not all shave enthusiasts from beginner to the multi decade and decorated wet shaver in existence. For the far majority, I find this to be indisputable. Then again, I could be wrong as most times I am....
Here we go with The Bad. The wait of acquiring one of the finer razors made is definitely a bothersome situation (that’s putting it conservatively) to quite a few who have taken the plunge to acquire one via word of mouth or those that have subscribed to the multitude of shave forums across the net that have spoken and given testament to the excellent shaver that the Karve is far outweighing the opinions of those that didn’t fair so well with the razor. Personally, it took about 5-6 weeks from when I placed my order until I actually had it in hand. Truthfully, I decided back then to pick one up off of the b/s/t as the wait was long (back then, Spring of ‘18) and I was anxious to try one out. It eventually showed up about a week after I had acquired the used Karve. The wait times have always been a constant problem back then and yet still is a constant and more severe problem now. Understandably Chris Kirchen has mostly been a one man business yet, from what I’ve read, seen and heard he has acquired help to assist in the manufacturing of his razors. Surprisingly though, with the extra help Karve still struggles to keep and maintain consistent inventory and more importantly prioritize manufacturing processes to tie in with the supply and demand of said product(s). A little over 2 years of Karve being in existence and CK is still having the same problems. Not good....
And here we have The Ugly. But, before I say anything else negative I’d like to say that I truly believe that Karve/Chris Kirchen is not out to stiff anyone of their hard earned cash. I see the effort of just trying to produce a quality product at a competitive price and in that he has succeeded excellently. Now, for the negative and as brilliant as his design and quality of the razor is, it’s equally dumbfounding and insane at how an individual/business can continue to act and proceed in making the same consistent mistakes over and over again. Compound that issue with stating or marketing a product that is depicted as being readily available and having the consumer actively believe that it is and sealing it with a purchase while not actually having it ready for immediate delivery is simply an act of deception and dishonesty. Those two acts alone are near actions of small business suicide or down right seppuku, only without honor or distinction. Personally, I believe that CK/Karve bit off way more than he could chew and it has spiraled out of control in terms of meeting product demands, manufacturing timelines, product shipping and the whole logistical set up of what a business needs to prioritize to maintain a semblance of positive productivity from the outset of acquiring the raw materials and into finalizing that product that will ultimately reach yours and every other wet shaver as a consumer. FUBAR is a freakin understatement. I’ve always believed that a solid foundation to any business is the idea and creation of said product including subsequent R&D. If one stays stagnant and shows no creativity, the business writes their own death sentence for growth and expansion. On top of that, there also has to be a priority on what needs to be accomplished in the short term so that the long term goals can still be met with clarity and distinction. Discipline on keeping to the basics of what one can and can’t do to succeed is rule no.1 and sticking to it is paramount. Integrity and honesty is the backbone of any business and in that Karve has failed miserably.
That being said, I still think that Karve can still right the ship and get this going where it needs to go. Why? That email that was sent out to all those that have purchased and are still waiting or cancelled their orders was an admission to them as well as all those that have considered to purchase a Karve product that Chris Kirchen has basically said “I F***ed UP People”. That’s the first time I’ve seen him concede to the fact that things have gone wrong in the worst possible way. Admitting to that could be the sign that he’s realized that the business module he works under has been severely lacking if not a downright failure. And perhaps, this could be the wake up call for him to get his shit together or face the inevitable. Business Dooms Day and potentially closing the doors. Recovering from that would be monumental if not near impossible.
I have no dog in this fight other than to say I would hate to see an artisan manufacturer in our niche world have to fail and bow out of the market. I wish that on no manufacturer that we as the wet shaving community have so little of. And we all have to admit that those small artisan manufacturers cater to our specific needs and small market demands for a particular product. And they have for the most part met those demands and at times exceeded them without blinking an eye. Those artisan manufacturers are competing for our business and hard earned dollars which subsequently will produce competition amongst themselves to produce a better product at very competitive prices. Whether you want to believe it or not, we’re the winners in that scenario. I know it’s easy to bad mouth some one or a group or business entity to exact our pound of flesh because we’re human and that’s what we do as it comes naturally to us to do so. And yes, giving funds to someone to hold on to or back a project without honestly saying so is disrespectful and deceitful. But, like I mentioned previously, I don’t believe that was CK/Karve’s intention. Karve wanted to produce and meet loyal customer and potential newer ones demands and that turned out not to be the case.
A damn shame? F***ing yeah it is. But, do I want Karve to succeed? Hell yes. I want this segment of our hobby to continue its growth and flourish. That guarantees that forums like this and many others will stay open and viable for us to keep yacking it up and maintaining that comradery that keeps us coming back for more. I enjoy it as many of you do as well. There are others that just want to seek out good advice and get the right equipment for a proper shave and nothing more and that’s fine too.
Remember Raw Shaving? I do and they closed shop. And it looks like another well known name a staple in wet shaving artisan razor makers, Charcoal Goods unfortunately is heading down the same path. Only time will tell with CG. So, I’m just saying, let’s give Karve a small chance and see what happens in the next couple of months. If he recovers and straightens things out, we’re in business. If he goes ahead and shoots himself in the foot again, then he’s had his opportunity and will just have created his own demise.
I’m out. Happy shaves Gents....,.
First the razor and The Good. I own their first release which was their Brass Karve razor with plates ranging from C-F including 2 handles in a 3” & 3.5”lengths. Intelligently designed and manufactured with uncompromising accuracy and precision right down to perhaps one of the smoothest handle attachment to top cap thread stud I’ve experienced. Quality workmanship that rivals those of the elite status that we, as wet shavers across all forums have unofficially created to differentiate between groups of average, good to ultimately, the best in artisan razor manufacturer land. I too consider Karve’s work to be of elite status. The shave quality and the range from which one can choose to adapt their shave technique, skin type and beard growth tendencies are readily apparent in the Karve Shave System. Pick your plate(s), open or closed, grab your length on a handle and get to work. The far majority of users will find something within that range to make it work to near perfection if not perfect. The Karve line up of razors in whatever choice of configuration & alloy will satisfy most, if not all shave enthusiasts from beginner to the multi decade and decorated wet shaver in existence. For the far majority, I find this to be indisputable. Then again, I could be wrong as most times I am....
Here we go with The Bad. The wait of acquiring one of the finer razors made is definitely a bothersome situation (that’s putting it conservatively) to quite a few who have taken the plunge to acquire one via word of mouth or those that have subscribed to the multitude of shave forums across the net that have spoken and given testament to the excellent shaver that the Karve is far outweighing the opinions of those that didn’t fair so well with the razor. Personally, it took about 5-6 weeks from when I placed my order until I actually had it in hand. Truthfully, I decided back then to pick one up off of the b/s/t as the wait was long (back then, Spring of ‘18) and I was anxious to try one out. It eventually showed up about a week after I had acquired the used Karve. The wait times have always been a constant problem back then and yet still is a constant and more severe problem now. Understandably Chris Kirchen has mostly been a one man business yet, from what I’ve read, seen and heard he has acquired help to assist in the manufacturing of his razors. Surprisingly though, with the extra help Karve still struggles to keep and maintain consistent inventory and more importantly prioritize manufacturing processes to tie in with the supply and demand of said product(s). A little over 2 years of Karve being in existence and CK is still having the same problems. Not good....
And here we have The Ugly. But, before I say anything else negative I’d like to say that I truly believe that Karve/Chris Kirchen is not out to stiff anyone of their hard earned cash. I see the effort of just trying to produce a quality product at a competitive price and in that he has succeeded excellently. Now, for the negative and as brilliant as his design and quality of the razor is, it’s equally dumbfounding and insane at how an individual/business can continue to act and proceed in making the same consistent mistakes over and over again. Compound that issue with stating or marketing a product that is depicted as being readily available and having the consumer actively believe that it is and sealing it with a purchase while not actually having it ready for immediate delivery is simply an act of deception and dishonesty. Those two acts alone are near actions of small business suicide or down right seppuku, only without honor or distinction. Personally, I believe that CK/Karve bit off way more than he could chew and it has spiraled out of control in terms of meeting product demands, manufacturing timelines, product shipping and the whole logistical set up of what a business needs to prioritize to maintain a semblance of positive productivity from the outset of acquiring the raw materials and into finalizing that product that will ultimately reach yours and every other wet shaver as a consumer. FUBAR is a freakin understatement. I’ve always believed that a solid foundation to any business is the idea and creation of said product including subsequent R&D. If one stays stagnant and shows no creativity, the business writes their own death sentence for growth and expansion. On top of that, there also has to be a priority on what needs to be accomplished in the short term so that the long term goals can still be met with clarity and distinction. Discipline on keeping to the basics of what one can and can’t do to succeed is rule no.1 and sticking to it is paramount. Integrity and honesty is the backbone of any business and in that Karve has failed miserably.
That being said, I still think that Karve can still right the ship and get this going where it needs to go. Why? That email that was sent out to all those that have purchased and are still waiting or cancelled their orders was an admission to them as well as all those that have considered to purchase a Karve product that Chris Kirchen has basically said “I F***ed UP People”. That’s the first time I’ve seen him concede to the fact that things have gone wrong in the worst possible way. Admitting to that could be the sign that he’s realized that the business module he works under has been severely lacking if not a downright failure. And perhaps, this could be the wake up call for him to get his shit together or face the inevitable. Business Dooms Day and potentially closing the doors. Recovering from that would be monumental if not near impossible.
I have no dog in this fight other than to say I would hate to see an artisan manufacturer in our niche world have to fail and bow out of the market. I wish that on no manufacturer that we as the wet shaving community have so little of. And we all have to admit that those small artisan manufacturers cater to our specific needs and small market demands for a particular product. And they have for the most part met those demands and at times exceeded them without blinking an eye. Those artisan manufacturers are competing for our business and hard earned dollars which subsequently will produce competition amongst themselves to produce a better product at very competitive prices. Whether you want to believe it or not, we’re the winners in that scenario. I know it’s easy to bad mouth some one or a group or business entity to exact our pound of flesh because we’re human and that’s what we do as it comes naturally to us to do so. And yes, giving funds to someone to hold on to or back a project without honestly saying so is disrespectful and deceitful. But, like I mentioned previously, I don’t believe that was CK/Karve’s intention. Karve wanted to produce and meet loyal customer and potential newer ones demands and that turned out not to be the case.
A damn shame? F***ing yeah it is. But, do I want Karve to succeed? Hell yes. I want this segment of our hobby to continue its growth and flourish. That guarantees that forums like this and many others will stay open and viable for us to keep yacking it up and maintaining that comradery that keeps us coming back for more. I enjoy it as many of you do as well. There are others that just want to seek out good advice and get the right equipment for a proper shave and nothing more and that’s fine too.
Remember Raw Shaving? I do and they closed shop. And it looks like another well known name a staple in wet shaving artisan razor makers, Charcoal Goods unfortunately is heading down the same path. Only time will tell with CG. So, I’m just saying, let’s give Karve a small chance and see what happens in the next couple of months. If he recovers and straightens things out, we’re in business. If he goes ahead and shoots himself in the foot again, then he’s had his opportunity and will just have created his own demise.
I’m out. Happy shaves Gents....,.
Member
An update email to the people who had ordered a polished SS razor;
"Hey guys,
I've worked through the emails to get all of the requests sorted out.
You will receive your discount codes on Monday and are welcome to use them for whatever you please.
Thank you all for your understanding, we sincerely appreciate it."
"Hey guys,
I've worked through the emails to get all of the requests sorted out.
You will receive your discount codes on Monday and are welcome to use them for whatever you please.
Thank you all for your understanding, we sincerely appreciate it."
Doctor Strange of Wetshaving
Forio d'Ischia, Naples, Italy
(04-10-2020, 06:22 PM)GlazedBoker Wrote: So, I’m just saying, let’s give Karve a small chance and see what happens in the next couple of months.+1
Well done.
Where there is a great desire there can be no great difficulty - Niccolò Machiavelli & Me
Greetings from Ischia. Pierpaolo
https://ischiapp.blogspot.com/
Greetings from Ischia. Pierpaolo
https://ischiapp.blogspot.com/
Member
gone to Carolina in my mind
I have a different, somewhat "back and forth" take on the situation. First, I think this segment of our hobby will continue to grow and flourish with or without Karve razors. OTOH I do think the world would be better off by granting more shots at redemption than it does, including to Chris. IMO humans tend to condemn quickly and forgive slowly, and we would be wise to do the reverse. However, I do not think redemption necessarily means a shot at walking down the same road, and certainly not necessarily expecting others to walk down the same road with us. Fortunately for me, I kept my money in my pocket this time. So it may be easier for me to say that I wish Chris a happy and successful life - which I do. TBH though, I don't much care whether Karve Razors stays open. Redemption often goes hand in hand with reinvention and radical transformation, and unfortunately, many artisans will go under before the current smoke clears.
That thought brings me to one last point: Many people budget this hobby - more people on tighter budgets now, with rising unemployment and/or life savings sitting in shrinking portfolios. For these among us, every dollar given to Karve Razors is a dollar taken away from an artisan who has done the right things all along. And until Karve establishes a track record of prompt delivery, it also represents a dollar put at risk. I cannot bring myself to fault people for seeing Karve as a risk and not taking the risk, especially in these times.
That thought brings me to one last point: Many people budget this hobby - more people on tighter budgets now, with rising unemployment and/or life savings sitting in shrinking portfolios. For these among us, every dollar given to Karve Razors is a dollar taken away from an artisan who has done the right things all along. And until Karve establishes a track record of prompt delivery, it also represents a dollar put at risk. I cannot bring myself to fault people for seeing Karve as a risk and not taking the risk, especially in these times.
Technique Trumps Tools
Skin Care Trumps Skin Repair
Be Cool, be Kind, and be Well
-- Mike --
Skin Care Trumps Skin Repair
Be Cool, be Kind, and be Well
-- Mike --
Member
(04-10-2020, 08:32 PM)HighSpeed Wrote: That thought brings me to one last point: Many people budget this hobby - more people on tighter budgets now, with rising unemployment and/or life savings sitting in shrinking portfolios. For these among us, every dollar given to Karve Razors is a dollar taken away from an artisan who has done the right things all along. And until Karve establishes a track record of prompt delivery, it also represents a dollar put at risk. I cannot bring myself to fault people for seeing Karve as a risk and not taking the risk, especially in these times.
Amen to this.
I also have no dog in this fight and I couldn't care less if Karve goes out of business due to their questionable business ethics.
I've never tried a Karve but this thread was quite informative. I've learned a lot. Gents, if I were in your position, I'd never support him again. You basically gave him a free-interest loan. Visit a bank and ask for one too. You also deserve one, don't you? What would they say to this request? You waited so many months for a product that was supposedly in stock. And you're still considering to support his upcoming projects, while there are so many honest and trustworthy people out there who struggle to make ends meet these days? For real? Now it's time to protect and support the good ones, they need us. People lose their jobs, the unemployment rates have surged and will continue to be very high for a long time. Personally, I'm thinking of supporting a couple of vendors that it's been always a pleasure to deal with. I feel now it's the time to do so. I actually don't need anything but I'm one of the privileged ones these days. If I support a sketchy businessman, it feels like depriving a reputable one of these money.
Just think about this.
Posting Freak
(04-10-2020, 09:12 PM)nikos.a Wrote:Very well said...(04-10-2020, 08:32 PM)HighSpeed Wrote: That thought brings me to one last point: Many people budget this hobby - more people on tighter budgets now, with rising unemployment and/or life savings sitting in shrinking portfolios. For these among us, every dollar given to Karve Razors is a dollar taken away from an artisan who has done the right things all along. And until Karve establishes a track record of prompt delivery, it also represents a dollar put at risk. I cannot bring myself to fault people for seeing Karve as a risk and not taking the risk, especially in these times.
Amen to this.
I also have no dog in this fight and I couldn't care less if Karve goes out of business due to their questionable business ethics.
I've never tried a Karve but this thread was quite informative. I've learned a lot. Gents, if I were in your position, I'd never support him again. You basically gave him a free-interest loan. Visit a bank and ask for one too. You also deserve one, don't you? What would they say to this request? You waited so many months for a product that was supposedly in stock. And you're still considering to support his upcoming projects, while there are so many honest and trustworthy people out there who struggle to make ends meet these days? For real? Now it's time to protect and support the good ones, they need us. People lose their jobs, the unemployment rates have surged and will continue to be very high for a long time. Personally, I'm thinking of supporting a couple of vendors that it's been always a pleasure to deal with. I feel now it's the time to do so. I actually don't need anything but I'm one of the privileged ones these days. If I support a sketchy businessman, it feels like depriving a reputable one of these money.
Just think about this.
Sent from my SM-T387V using Tapatalk
It's sharp and it cuts. I like it...
Northeast, USA
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2020, 11:11 PM by GlazedBoker.)
(04-10-2020, 08:32 PM)HighSpeed Wrote: I have a different, somewhat "back and forth" take on the situation. First, I think this segment of our hobby will continue to grow and flourish with or without Karve razors. OTOH I do think the world would be better off by granting more shots at redemption than it does, including to Chris. IMO humans tend to condemn quickly and forgive slowly, and we would be wise to do the reverse. However, I do not think redemption necessarily means a shot at walking down the same road, and certainly not necessarily expecting others to walk down the same road with us. Fortunately for me, I kept my money in my pocket this time. So it may be easier for me to say that I wish Chris a happy and successful life - which I do. TBH though, I don't much care whether Karve Razors stays open. Redemption often goes hand in hand with reinvention and radical transformation, and unfortunately, many artisans will go under before the current smoke clears.
That thought brings me to one last point: Many people budget this hobby - more people on tighter budgets now, with rising unemployment and/or life savings sitting in shrinking portfolios. For these among us, every dollar given to Karve Razors is a dollar taken away from an artisan who has done the right things all along. And until Karve establishes a track record of prompt delivery, it also represents a dollar put at risk. I cannot bring myself to fault people for seeing Karve as a risk and not taking the risk, especially in these times.
I understand your point, truly I do. Hell, I could be wrong in my opinion and as a whole my complete summation of what I wrote. And trust me, I completely get it. But, I’ve always believed that for as careless as a situation that may arise, or as dark as a situation may and can be, we as humans are always looking towards the what could have been or in some ways the light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. You do bring a valid point in terms of the times that we are presently living and it won’t be getting better anytime soon. Disease, famine, economic instability, wars and a slew of many other things have been around since man has roamed the Earth. And they will continue to be with us for as long as we are on it. I’m not trying to shed light on pessimism or preach that man is on a downfall, far from it. Even though this issue on backing a small artisan razor manufacturer is nothing but a spec compared to the global issues at hand, I look at as a microcosm on how we pin our beliefs or perhaps our expectations in one another. Of course, just seeing it in the wet shaving realm and not an exact translation to the current times.
I see it as having a bit of hope and faith that in the end Karve will come through. That perhaps he’s come to the point of no return in business terms and that he see’s the damage to his name and business entity that this long problem is presenting to him. This could be the “A-Ha” moment that snaps him out of the doldrums that his business model seems to be in. We are given two things in this world and they’re given to us at birth. And not to sound rude or crass and my apologies for sounding as such but, he’s put his word on it and his balls to see it through. As men, that’s all we have, that’s all we’ll leave with.
Will he come through? Your guess is as good as mine my friend. It all goes back to hope and faith as we regularly deposit it in many others aspects in our lives. Maybe you’re right and it’s not worth giving Karve another chance. Perhaps he’s wasted his opportunities at redemption or making things right at a wet shave level. I wouldn’t blame a soul for saying they’ve had enough and no more. A part of me agrees with that sentiment. But, there’s the other part that wants to believe that Karve will make things right. Foolishly perhaps but, I’ve done many a foolish things in my life. Giving a razor artisan a chance to make right is of zero consequence to the greater things happening around us.....
Either way, you brought up a valid point and a compelling argument amigo. Kudos.....
Member
(04-10-2020, 09:12 PM)nikos.a Wrote: Now it's time to protect and support the good ones, they need us. People lose their jobs, the unemployment rates have surged and will continue to be very high for a long time. Personally, I'm thinking of supporting a couple of vendors that it's been always a pleasure to deal with.yep so much this. If we don't reward people for conducting their businesses properly, we will be encouraging Karve-like behavior. Especially now.
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