I Have Hit The "Wall"

As far as "hitting the wall" is concerned, I think the absolute, final wall, if it hasn't been hit already, will be hit soon. And it's not because soapers aren't doing due diligence and using creativity in their soap bases.

It's because there are physicochemical limits to what a shave soap can do. We have been approaching that limit as an asymptote for the past 3-5 years, at least. Because the curve is asymptotic, further changes/enhancements to soap bases will, OF NECESSITY, make barely perceptible changes. The steep part of the slope is at least a decade behind us.

There will continue to be good soaps and great soaps, but I don't believe there will ever be a soap that "changes the game." No matter what the soaper does. Because it's not possible because of the laws of physics and chemistry.

IMO, enjoy what you've got. If you are like me, you already have a bunch of high-quality shave soaps that do the job perfectly well. Be happy that you live in a time where not only are there people making these great soaps, but you can connect with them on the internet (for purchase, or, in some cases, for discussion)! What a great time to be alive.

Hello kingfisher I agree in some aspects and disagree on others. I think we are definitely starting to plateau in terms of what a shave soap could do for us given the current science that is being employed. I had talked with a friend about this just the other day. Making soap is quite a traditional process and involves very little more then mixing lye with fats. As time process our knowledge of the benefits of certain fats and additives expands which lead us to where we are today.

However I see lots of room for improvement and am in fact in the beginning stages of making my own soap (for personal use) to test the boundaries. I see soaps advance in one of two method. Better chemical formulation which makes use of actives vs what we see current state. The second is dabbling in low pH soap typically known as detergent and seeing how to get the lather in a similar state.

Example lets say makers want to incorporate a BHA into their soaps. Salicylic acid is the most popular form of BHA but just adding it to soap doesn't make much of a different. Traditional methods of lye based soap are alkaline in nature and salicylic acid is most effort when the PH is between 3 and 4 on the acid scale. In order to combat this you would either need to make a detergent shaving soap at that PH or look toward an alternative BHA like betaine salicylate which is shown to be effective even at a PH of 6.5. Whilst this is not akaline by any mean I have not seen any test done of how far betaine salicylate can still be effective once we get into the higher PHs.

Testing and more knowledge of chemical interactions and thinking outside the box will lead to the next revolution and will allow us to reach for a higher ceiling. Question is will we ever reach such a state. Hopefully my soap does but again will be too expensive to sell to the mass so that might be another issue. Will bypassing the current ceiling mean making soap inaccessible price-wise that is a very interesting question to ponder.

Interesting.

You may be right about soap asymptotically approaching the wall kingfisher, but even if performance hits a wall, two non-performance improvements are conceivable to me.  First, prices of the very best soaps may drop, perhaps due to process improvements and economies of scale.  Second, I have heard the holy grail of shaving soap described as soap that performs as well as today's top tier soaps but which is brushless.  The brushless part may not be appealing or important to traditional shavers, but it is time saving, convenient for travel, and viewed by some as a prereq for mainstream shavers.  To the extent that brushless is viewed as a mainstream prereq, brushless top-tier soap may attract mainstream R&D investment, and that investment might pay off.  TBH, depending on the additives, one or more brushless top-tier performers might well find a place in my den.

You may be right about soap asymptotically approaching the wall kingfisher, but even if performance hits a wall, two non-performance improvements are conceivable to me.  First, prices of the very best soaps may drop, perhaps due to process improvements and economies of scale.  Second, I have heard the holy grail of shaving soap described as soap that performs as well as today's top tier soaps but which is brushless.  The brushless part may not be appealing or important to traditional shavers, but it is time saving, convenient for travel, and viewed by some as a prereq for mainstream shavers.  To the extent that brushless is viewed as a mainstream prereq, brushless top-tier soap may attract mainstream R&D investment, and that investment might pay off.  TBH, depending on the additives, one or more brushless top-tier performers might well find a place in my den.

You're not wrong. Keep an eye on the guys from St. Louis.

Actually, soap will soon be a not so important factor in shaving IMO. Here's why:

https://damnfineshave.com/thread-razor-b...eakthrough

Most creams can already be used brushless. Feather Hi Shave is an outstanding brushless cream, stupidly slick and the PSF is wonderful.

But soap supplies more than lubrication, whipping up a nice, warm, fragrant lather with a favorite brush is more than cold slick stuff from a tube applied by hand, IOW a good soap or cream is really more than the sum of it’s parts. At least to me.

I guess my view is different. I don't buy different offerings looking for the "perfect" soap. I enjoy them all. I became aware years ago that performance gains in new bases were small. Now I buy based on scents and enjoy each one for what it is. If I were looking for the ultimate "performer" I would have hit the wall years ago. I like variety and that is what buying different soaps give me.

Henery,

All of that may be true, and they may come up with something that serves as a shaving substance that works better than soap lather; but it won't be SOAP.  It will be something else.  SOAP has reached (or is very, very close to reaching) it's apex.  That's what I was saying.  

I have no idea what the future will bring in terms of shaving SUBSTANCES or MATRICES or God knows what.

You may be right about soap asymptotically approaching the wall kingfisher, but even if performance hits a wall, two non-performance improvements are conceivable to me.  First, prices of the very best soaps may drop, perhaps due to process improvements and economies of scale.  Second, I have heard the holy grail of shaving soap described as soap that performs as well as today's top tier soaps but which is brushless.  The brushless part may not be appealing or important to traditional shavers, but it is time saving, convenient for travel, and viewed by some as a prereq for mainstream shavers.  To the extent that brushless is viewed as a mainstream prereq, brushless top-tier soap may attract mainstream R&D investment, and that investment might pay off.  TBH, depending on the additives, one or more brushless top-tier performers might well find a place in my den.

You're not wrong. Keep an eye on the guys from St. Louis.

Hmmm......another rabbit in the hat there Dom?

A long term idea. We’ll see what 2020 brings.


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If we have hit a wall in terms of performance, then soapers should start using organic materials. It's a new way to differentiate and would justify the increasing prices. And it's earth friendly, which no one has a rationale against.