Have We Reached Peak Soap?

I’m curious from a maker’s perspective, what is the price threshold that makes you balk on that new X? Or is there one? Where is the improvement vs. cost intersection?


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I’m curious from a maker’s perspective, what is the price threshold that makes you balk on that new X? Or is there one? Where is the improvement vs. cost intersection?


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The best way I can help you as a consumer is to point out that for me personally, price is not normally a deciding factor.  When it comes to things that make me balk, lack of product consistency and lack of reliable, off-the-shelf availability almost always run neck-and-neck for first place.  Price is generally a distant a third.  And even though lack of consistency and availability do not increase price in-and-of-themselves, they can jack up cost of ownership considerably.  The increased costs include both money more or less wasted on more or less disappointing soaps, plus wasted time that could have been spent with a superb, consistent, known quantity.  There are so many vendors jockeying for position in the Primo Soap Derby, and the pack is tight enough, that [font=Verdana]the main determinants of my buying behavior have become (1) [/font]being able to know what I'm getting and (2) being able to buy it again when I want it.

HighSpeed I had to laugh at the term "Primo Soap Derby"!

What I’m finding is my choices are not influenced by soap base but by scent. All top soaps will shave For me. Some of them just do so with killer scent. Sir Henrys Sandalwood. Declaration Darkfall. B&M Diamond. Trumpers Eucris (oh wait, they screwed up their base). Murphy and McNeil Orobouros. Fine L’Orange Noir. For me scent is the driver.

I’m curious from a maker’s perspective, what is the price threshold that makes you balk on that new X? Or is there one? Where is the improvement vs. cost intersection?


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Only because you asked, dominicr ...

Not going to likely be the most popular answer, but for me there is definitely a ceiling for cost that I'm willing to pay. I understand the whole, 'you get what you pay for' mantra... And I have some better soaps I prefer. Still, I can't get past the idea that i'm just buying soap (actually, I'm buying lots of them and it adds up).

Generally, I look for something under or at $20. I slip beyond that dollar amount from time to time. Of course, a lot of soap makers fall within this category. I'm not really putting a huge stringent limit on it. You also have the larger tubs for more money. That has to be taken into account as you get more than the usual, so it should warrant a larger threshold. But, that thought is diluted by the fact that we all have 10, 20, 100?? soaps. Do I really need an 28oz tub of one soap scent if it's competing against 20 others for my attention? If that 28oz takes me a decade to use, how many years do I really get to enjoy the scent before it fades (or, God forbid the whole soap goes rancid)?

Some time ago Bouki has stated something like more soap makers should sell 2oz soaps. I wholeheartedly agree. I understand this is probably bad for business, but we all have to dream. Lol.

Sorry folks, I'll get off my soapbox.

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I’m curious from a maker’s perspective, what is the price threshold that makes you balk on that new X? Or is there one? Where is the improvement vs. cost intersection?


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The question of price threshold does not come into play as much for me with a couple exceptions, but rather how am I going to be able to use and store my soaps with an overflowing supply already.   That said, some new product needs to be exceptional enough to distinguish itself from my current products.

In terms of a price tag that makes me pause is $25 or more for a 4 oz quantity.  It has to be something special to merit a higher cost.  Examples for me that meet this threshold are: Zingari Man No. 1 and Gentleman's Nod Zaharoff collaboration.  Wholly Kaw Siero soaps are just too high for me, given the other high end artisan options.

How could we "reached peak soap? There's a new "base" put out practically every day that "blows" the one that was put out yesterday "out of the water".

I’m curious from a maker’s perspective, what is the price threshold that makes you balk on that new X? Or is there one? Where is the improvement vs. cost intersection?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The best way I can help you as a consumer is to point out that for me personally, price is not normally a deciding factor.  When it comes to things that make me balk, lack of product consistency and lack of reliable, off-the-shelf availability almost always run neck-and-neck for first place.  Price is generally a distant a third.  And even though lack of consistency and availability do not increase price in-and-of-themselves, they can jack up cost of ownership considerably.  The increased costs include both money more or less wasted on more or less disappointing soaps, plus wasted time that could have been spent with a superb, consistent, known quantity.  There are so many vendors jockeying for position in the Primo Soap Derby, and the pack is tight enough, that [font=Verdana]the main determinants of my buying behavior have become (1) [/font]being able to know what I'm getting and (2) being able to buy it again when I want it.

Personally I’m the opposite in terms of liking something for future availability, for a couple reasons:
1) It takes me forever to make it through a full tub of soap. I’ve never been the type to buy backups of things, I figure if there’s a scent I like that isn’t available sometime later I’ll have to live with it. 
2) I’m not so in love with any one base that I feel my shaves will suffer is it’s not around later. The artisans keep upping their game to a point where even if we’re at the peak now and there were no further improvements, I could be totally happy with any one of a number of bases that are out there now.

Here we go again, seems always the dissenting voice....

Am under the distinct impression that much of the feedback hails from those with normal skin and lacking the legacy of facial injuries - which is fine, as in nature population distributions fit a normal curve.  Thus, it not surprising the overwhelming majority of people find the overwhelming majority of soaps more than adequate and respond to incremental breakthroughs in soap technology as de minimis and evanescent.  This is a fair statement reflecting the reality for the majority but there is also a concept termed the tyranny of the majority describing the majority's lack of understanding regarding the minority suffering under the status quo. Please don't take this as a disparagement of the people commenting hitherto, rather take it as a statement that those with real dermatological and physiological challenges face a very different reality from the majority of shavers.  To those of us "blessed" by life, the technological breakthroughs mattering little to normal people are of monumental significance. 

Specifically, I started shaving in the vintage era using C&E; make no mistake it was outstanding for its time as were the classic Italian croaps.  In fact, took a hiatus from wet shaving bowing to collegiate team mates' fraternity brothers' peer pressure to be normal using cartridges and canned foam all the athletic and social influencers promoted in print and television.  My time in self imposed seemingly eternal shaving Hell was miserable, spending a fortune in hateful technology both manual and electric to no avail, the pain, redness and bleeding was both embarrassing and costly in clothes and cleaning.  When returning to wet shaving about a decade ago, went back to the classic European standbys because they were familiar and was ignorant of the North American artisans revolutionizing the soap making art, irrespective they were a huge improvement over anything else widely commercially available.  Fortunately, encountered dfoulk; he changed my understanding that soap could be more than a medium to soften and remove hair but also a remedial and nutritional ally in healing the skin.  He introduced me to many people in the industry including some of the best soap makers in the business: Ari, Ryan, Mo (and David as it turned out) changing the world.  Many on here have stated that modern soap makers' efforts lead to benefits that aren't of practical impact or are so minimal that it doesn't justify the effort nor expense, others that soap making should remain at the state of the art in the 1960s because there never was a genuine need to improve the art, perhaps even that the art has devolved: all of which  is fine and good for their reality.  However, these continual minor incremental improvements meaningless to the majority of shavers are each of major consequence for those possessing genuinely (as opposed to imagined) skin challenges.

Prior to the last 3 years, I had never experienced a shave that was painfree; until the last 2 months, had never experienced a shave without extreme redness on the neck.  Shaving has never been a tolerable let alone pleasant experience; so it is with complete ignorance and bemusement that I observe the numbers of people viewing it a hobby - that stated, never once did it occur to me to suggest hobbyist shaving is a waste of time or should cease to exist.  The first major breakthrough of soaps making a marked improvement by mitigating, as opposed to eliminating, pain was when introduced to Grooming Dept, soon afterward followed by an introduction to Wholly Kaw Donkey Milk formulations.  These have been a Godsend in that while the facial swelling and neck redness remained, at least the preponderance of the pain was eliminated.  Just being able to shave on a regular basis, sometimes even back to back days was an incredibly liberating experience to which my appreciation extends to these 2 artisans forever more.  As great as these products performed, there was yet room for improvement and they, as well as some of the other leading artisans including Cutting Edge did as they made minor irregular but nonetheless persistent strides to improve their soaps in various characteristics crucial to those of us afflicted, a minor inconvenience to others wishing the status quo maintained so they could collect full arrays of scents.  Recently a new artisan has made a major breakthrough that not only continues with mitigation of pain relief and progress in post shave skin rejuvenation but found a formulation so adept at healing the skin that virtually all swelling and redness has been resolved - this artisan is ETHOS Grooming Essentials, a company that DFS has been instrumental in providing a platform and the passarounds an opportunity to try before buying.  That is the upside of hobbyist shaving; the community formed by enthusiasts provides a platform that those with innovative ideas but lacking funding can employ to solve problems that a minority without a voice can access to resolve issues deemed nonexistent by the majority of enthusiasts.

This is the upside of markets and capitalism at its best and one that all can celebrate.

One final comment: I know a very arrogant young man with an elite graduate degree from Columbia and a highly compensated nonvalueadded executive job gambling on the productive work of others: his take is that every development in man's history has already been made and that henceforth all that is left is to disintermediate until virtually no employees are required.  As shocking as it is to hear a recent graduate of such a prestigious institution bearing the branding of an elite educated man deserving unchallenged acceptance as a thought leader utter such drivel proven wrong by history on a regular basis, it is worse coming from experienced men of the world actually possessing a classical liberal arts education; let's strive to NOT be Sergey nor Francis Fukuyama, both greater fools, eh?

I have a large collection of soaps. I have tried the latest offerings of Ariana & Evans, Australian Private Reserve, Barrister & Mann, CBL. Chiseled Face, Declaration Grooming, First Line Shave, Gentleman's Nod, Grooming Department, Highland Springs Soap Company, Hub City Soap, Murphy & McNeil, Noble Otter, Oleo Soapworks, Saponificio Varesino, Shannon Soaps, Talbot Shaving, Tallow & Steel, Wholly Kaw and Zingari Man along with many others. There has been a tremendous improvement in the quality of soaps over the past couple of years. The best soaps in my den were released in the last year, one was released only last week. When I first started evaluating soaps about four years ago, I noticed significant differences in the performance. Some soaps were hard to lather. Some lathers were bubbly, or dissipated during use.Some soaps weren't quite slick enough. Some soaps had little residual slickness. Some soaps did not provide a great layer of cushion to protect my sensitive skin. Some soaps left my face feeling tight and dry.

Today, I really have to pay close attention to detect differences between the best soaps. The best soaps are all easy to lather, producer a smooth lather free of large bubbles, are incredibly slick, remain slick even when no visible lather remains, and provide a nice film of protection between the blade and my skin. Finally, the best soaps leave my skin feeling soft, supple, moisturized and conditioned within minutes after the shave and leave my skin feeling wonderful for the next 24 hours. Can shaving soaps improve beyond this level? Probably, but at this point, I believe most improvements will be incremental.

I think the real challenge for soapmakers is not going to be producing a soap better than all others, but being able to produce a soap of very high quality without the cost of the soap becoming so high that a majority of the wet shaving market either can't or won''t pay the price. A few years ago, many soaps were selling for $3 per ounce. Then soaps went up to $4-5 per ounce. Now we see soaps at the $6 - 8 per ounce price. Fortunately, the quality of soaps has gone up as the cost has increased, but will people still purchase soaps that cost $10 - 12 per ounce. I do not mind paying $6 - 8 per ounce for a superb soap, but beyond that, I am not sure.