Flashlights

I am finding this thread interesting because I am only understanding about 10%-15% of what everyone is posting :-)

Is there an American made LED flashlight that performs extremely well? I would like to avoid the Lithium Camera batteries and stick to a standard battery. Any advice would be appreciated.

Asa', I can't really help you with that. The old tech lights have been left in the dust by the new technology.

That rang a bell as I wrote it; yes I can help, but I'm not happy pointing you in this direction. If you have a scuba diving shop near you they might have the old Sunlight SL4 or SL6 lights. They use C cells. I used an SL4 at work for years and I can attest to how rugged they are. I can't recall anyone ever wearing their SL light out, and there are parts available for them for parts that might need refurbishing. They were so good that I bought 2 SL6s' for the wife and I. But I need to tell you that no matter how good they are and were, we mothballed our old SL lights and have moved to the LEDs and Li-Ion. As long as basic common sense is used with Li-Ion and one doesn't buy junk cells, they're fairly safe. Folks get into trouble when they don't follow the rules; just like anything. OK, back to old tech lights... you might also do an online search for the models I suggested. But if you use the light regularly as we did, you'll go through a bulb per year at the cost of ~$15. But I'm going to write it again, it's old tech' and it's been left in the dust by the new lights. It's not even close. I can't tell you where it's made.

I got some links for you. I have no connection to Amazon or the seller if it's an independent seller.

sl4: https://www.amazon.com/Underwater-Kineti...B001G5ZGHU

sl6: https://www.amazon.com/Underwater-Kineti...B001G5ZGVG

I found that it's much easier to put the 6 cells into the sl6 as compared to inserting 4 into the sl4. The latter can be a little tricky, but gets easier with experience. They also come with really nice wrist lanyards.

There are lights that use CR123, AAs and AAAs, but output suffers and runtimes go up because the cells simply can't supply the juice required for maximum output, but they do supply that reduced current for a longer time. Check Streamlight and Surefire for those that are (possibly) made in the USA. There are other manufacturers as well, I simply don't know of them. Fenix, is another that you might run into, but I think it's Chinese. Cost per lumen is much higher with a USA made light in general.

If you want more information on LED lights, I'm on the Budget Light Forum where we discuss (mainly) budget lights. Most of them are NOT made in the USA, but they outperform US made lights in a dollar/lumen ratio. The innards of many of them are US made and one needs to watch out for counterfeits. They are also user repairable, or someone on the forum can repair them for free or a nominal fee. FWIW, I acquired a bunch of counterfeit C8s that wouldn't work. I inquired on the forum with my tale of woe and a gent stepped up to fix them at cost just because he wanted to see if they were genuine or fake. He partially rebuilt all 5 lights, and fully rebuilt 2 lights and supplied parts for the other 3 and with shipping it wasn't over $20.

:-) In case you haven't caught on that I'm trying to dissuade you from old tech I'm going to write it again. I strongly suggest LED lights. If you stay with quality protected cells in a one cell light it's about as safe as anything one can buy today. But try to buy inferior cells and it could be a disaster. Those are the ones you hear about on the news and they're easy to find. My first 4 cells were of that type (garbage). They're fairly easy to spot back back then I simply didn't know. In a 18650 the current technology from the best makers is about 3500 mah (milli/amp hours). The counterfeits claim 4000mah, and much higher. I've seen claims for as much as 9000mah. One would be lucky to get 1/10th of that capacity, and at that it's just a bomb. The prices are very good for the counterfeits too. A quality 18650 runs about $8+, a counterfeit will be $1-$2 and have that fantastic claimed capacity.

USA made... OK, another light went off in my head. But it uses a 18650. I will be receiving a modified C8 built in a Xin* body (called a host). It has a Cree LED, with a USA made driver programmed by the maker of the light in Alabama. The LED is dedomed meaning it will slightly shift the tint as a byproduct, but it increases the throw of the light (distance it's usable at). It uses a FET driver to maximize output but also retains the very low modes for increased runtime. So It's a highly modified light capable of great output and distance that doesn't need to be used at that output all the time, and made with mostly US components assembled by hand by a gent in Alabama. The cost is $45. The light is the length of my hand and MUCH lighter and far less bulky then the SL lights mentioned above. It will easily outperform either of the SL lights. Yes, you'll need a Li-Ion cell (approx' 8-$10) which will last for many years. A charger is <$5. It won't be a full featured charger, but it will be a safe charger. I can be an intermediary on this light, or you can ask me for his username on the BLF and you can buy directly through him. This light will be extremely bright and be usable out to beyond 100 yards. I don't think this gent is making a lot of profit per light.
* I wanted the Xin body because it came with a forward clicky switch which I prefer. But these lights can take any switch you like (forward clicky or reverse clicky).

Yeah, I know, I lost you with the minutia, that's why I gave the descriptions of the performance so that you'd have something to work with. The rest is just jargon, but it actually does mean something. If you get "into" the LED lights you'll pick it up over time. if not there's no reason you should ever need to learn the jargon. It's like any other subject in that it uses words all it's own as one delves into it.

Gotta run!

Is not Surefire a US company?

I believe their corporate headquarters are US based, but like Ford, the lights might be made elsewhere. Today one simply doesn't know, and I don't either, that's why I wouldn't take a stand one way or the other. I just don't know a great deal about US made lights other than I prefer not to pay that much for what I consider to be underpowered lights that use primary cells (non rechargeable).

Streamlight does have some relatively inexpensive plastic body lights, and it wouldn't surprise me if they were at least partially manufactured in China. I seem to remember them being in the $45 range which is still expensive to me because I know what can be bought for $45, and made out of machined aluminum and not plastic. Too, an aluminum bodied light is fairly EMP proof if that's important. Their aluminum lights struck me as being quite expensive but I don't remember actual prices. If they're made in China, shipped here and sold for that price it's robbery pure and simple; but without holding a gun to someones head.

BTW, we have at least one Chinese manufacturer (Simon at Aliexpress) who works with the BLF to manufacture up to a quality while still keeping prices down. He makes the C8 and the L2 and L6 lights that I would point folks to. He makes really nice stuff for an off the shelf light and most people would be extremely happy with what he makes without modifying the light. He can't be making a lot of $ per light. But he's probably learned that if he makes quality, word gets around and he makes his $ in volume, plus by working with us he makes something for western markets that we want to buy.

Yesterday I received my custom built C8 built in a Xin host. It's grey and just gorgeous on the outside. But it's the performance that counts. I already have a semi custom C8 with one of the mod's I had done to this light, the LED was dedomed. But in addition to that I also have an FET driver in this light and the springs have been bypassed for better current carrying capability. The gent who made it for me did an excellent job. The result is a light with over 2x the output of my previous C8 that I use in my EDC pack. This light also has a forward clicky switch that allows me to give a half press of the button to flash the light. In keeping with that and it's designed use as a tactical light I had the builder flash the chips with the "Bistro" user interface. That allowed me to change the way the light works from ramping from low to high, to starting with High and ramping down. If I ever need to use this light for what it's designed for I want as much light as I can get initially so as to blind whatever it gets flashed at.

Also yesterday I got in a X6. It has the same form factor of another tube light that it replaces in my EDC pack, but since it too is FET driven it again, has over 2x the light output of it's look alike.

Of course there is no free lunch and that performance really drains a cell rapidly and causes the light to heat up, so their use has to be tempered with a bit of caution to just use as much light as what's needed and no more. Just as one doesn't always drive a performance car for performance all the time, these lights won't always be used on the highest output.

Here are some of the lights I've been discussing.
[Image: DSC04388_zps2tso09xg.jpg]
From l-r: machinists 6" scale, (AA or 14500 lights) TG06, x5, (18650 lights) A6, Xin C8, (26650 lights) L2, and L6 with sling to keep my hands free.

Asa' give me time and some of what I've run across comes back. Some of the lights pictured above can use AAs, but performance suffers since a disposable (primary) cell can't supply current fast enough for full performance. Generally though any light that can use a 14500 can also use a AA. Lights that use a 10400 can also use a AAA. Going bigger is where it starts to become tricky since the diameter of the cell and the length need to be right to make contact. That's where I'm not really conversant. If you find a light that you like, I suggest spending time on the BLF looking around and ask questions of the members. Trust me on this, they are very tolerant of noobs and helpful. Lots of folks there know what it takes for primary cells to work in the lights. To equal two 18650s you might need to use 4 or 5 CR123s. That can be done and the light survive because of the driver. The LED doesn't see the current or voltage directly, but is fed what it requires from the driver. These are not the lights of my childhood.

Here is a basic LED light diagram: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/show...flashlight

And more in depth info: http://flashlightwiki.com/Main_Page

All sorts of stuff mixed into this link, and it contains links with even more information. Once you see the LED pix and technical data don't be turned off, just cursor down to get through it. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/26665

Very interesting thread Brian.

I don't have any rechargeable flashlights but do have some good ones.

An iProtec LED flashlight that takes 4 standard AAA batteries.  
A 20 plus year old Maglite that takes 2 D cells.



The iProtec is called the Slyde. The handle slides back to reveal a work light.


The Slyde has 250 lumens as a flashlight and 200 lumens as a worklight. It has an aluminum housing and is considered a tactical light so the lamp housing has the scalloped edge for use as a weapon. it also has a powerful magnet on the back. Makes mounting it as a worklight nice and easy. Last winter the stupid pressure reading valves in my car tires started to leak. At $150 a pop I was loathe to replace them. Every 3 days I added air to my tires. Used the magnet of the Slyde to position the flashlight in the wheel well aimed at the valve stem. I really appreciated it in the cold. I could keep my hands in my pocket.

The 2 D Maglite has been a trusty companion for over 20 years. It came with an incandescent bulb rated at 27 lumens. A year ago I replaced the bulb with a Nite ize LED. It is now rated at 74 lumens. The batteries seem to last longer with the LED.


The Maglite was made in the US. Nite ize is also a US company but the bulb was made in China.

My best flashlight is a Streamlight. Very pricey. It is a specialized application and bright as heck - 625 lumens. It takes 2 replaceable lithium CR123A batteries. No picture but the flashlight is about 4 inches long. Unbelievably bright for such a small package.

I do love the LED technology.

Phil

Phil, that isn't your imagination about cells lasting longer. LEDs are far more efficient than incandescent. They start to lose efficiency when one begins to push lots of current through them.

To give you a feel for it, The L6 above can run for 208 hours on low (more than 8 days), and low is quite bright enough for close in work, up to maybe 20' away outside, better indoors. but on turbo mode the very same cells are only good for 2 hours. The light intensity is wildly different, but if one sat down and figured out total lumens over that time, low mode would win hands down. The difference in current going through the tailcap is 50 milli amps on low and on high 5200 milli amps (5.2 amps). Turbo mode drains 2 cells very rapidly and the head gets too hot to touch. But when one needs raw power it's nice to have. I try to not use any of those lights that have turbo mode for very long since heat is the bane of LED lights. When I start to feel the head warming up I'll start to ramp it down if possible. I have a diving light that will warm up a glass of water in not very many minutes (for those who like warm water).

That crenelated bezel, aka a "DNA collector" has another use. When the light is on and setting on it's head one can easily see that it's on to save juice. No way would I ever strike someone with a flashlight since it's a deadly weapon.

Brian,
I know the lights I have are not nearly as bright as yours. That whole hot battery thing gives me the willies. My daughter just had her Samsung phone recalled for the second and final time over the battery issue. So I give up power and light for some peace of mind. I did read your various treatises on this but a flashlight hot enough to heat water makes me nervous regardless of the battery issue.

That crenelated bezel, aka a "DNA collector" has another use. When the light is on and setting on it's head one can easily see that it's on to save juice. No way would I ever strike someone with a flashlight since it's a deadly weapon.

I thought that was the whole point of the scalloped edge. To be used as a last ditch defensive weapon.

I wrote what I wrote not to impress you, but to illustrate LED efficiency and inefficiency. Yours are efficient. Especially the replacement LED "bulb". It has very little heat transfer to the shell of the light and must be of modest illumination, hence efficient. It was designed correctly. For lights that are designed less efficiently (high output) they are designed with a direct thermal path to the shell of the light where the heat can be dissipated into the shell, then into the air or water. Mine can be used inefficiently, but I accept that and understand it. It's why I call the X5 a "dragster". It has a very small tank and high output for a very short time. But I can choose to use it for a long time with lower output, and even longer output if I put primary cells into it instead of high drain cells (install a bigger tank). But I choose to carry spare high drain batteries for my EDC lights. I'll probably never need the spare cells. Heck, I'll probably never need the lights if I practice situational awareness.

Samsung used junk batteries and then corrected the issue with more junk batteries. I bet they tried some new innovation that didn't work and wasn't fully tested. We don't use junk batteries and our Li-Ion cells have come a very long way in just a few years. We now have protected cells that disconnect themselves in case of a problem, and know not to use unprotected cells in series ( a 2 cell and more light), though some do because they have the knowledge to allow it; but I won't and I have the knowledge. It's just not worth the risk for me. I haven't heard, and no one else has either, of a quality cell becoming a bomb in regular and correct use. Folks have even tried to make them become a bomb and they really have to work at it by putting a torch or such on the housing. Samsung and other makers need to design batteries for each phone, we use proven designs that are refinements of what came before. Ours are much safer since the refinements include safety and not only capacity. The proof is the protection built into every protected cell when too much juice is drawn or before the voltage gets into the danger zone. It simply won't allow the cell to become a danger. They're so safe now that WalMart has them on the shelf and for sale as does Radio Shack.

The links I posted, especially the huge one has cell safety, but one must cursor WAY down below the LED specs and graphs to find it. It's not difficult. It's just new information. The world is moving to this because it's better and the cells are everywhere today even if they can't be seen.

In the lights I describe it's not the batteries getting hot, it's the electronics inside the head, mostly the LED getting hot. The diving light is intended to keep cool by heating water, the rest have fins to make better use of air cooling, but mass really is king for that (water is mass). The LED is mounted on a copper plate that is designed to conduct the heat to the shell. That's why the light gets hot. The higher the output the more juice passing through the LED and the more heat generated in the head, not in the batteries unless they're bad cells. But they're easy to spot because the cells don't normally get hot. If they do, they're recycled. A quality cell will last for many years, a decade or more.

:-) It's OK to use as an impact weapon if your life is in peril, but be sure it'll make sense to a jury if the person it's used on is killed or maimed, and have $250k for a lawyer even if one is totally in the clear. Deadly force is nothing to take lightly and a bludgeon is deadly force. Personally I never want to get that close. My thrust would be to increase the distance for my safety. My concern is that it would be used where it shouldn't be since it's not looked on as a deadly weapon by most people and then the defender could become the perpetrator. Plus they're difficult to employ correctly since they're heavy and can't be swung rapidly by most people, which is exactly what's required. The odds are high that it would be taken away and used on the wielder of the light. I can't go further and if I do we'd be discussing weapons. We can discuss it in a PM if you'd like. I teach this stuff when I have time to take on students, but you're safe; I don't have time other than to write a few words. I'm not looking for clients or to teach a class at this time.