ETHOS Grooming Essentials A New Line

POLL: 

I need some input. It’s a big decision I have to make and I’m going back and forth on this one so I need some thoughtful input on this subject. It will be very much appreciated.

Ok so this subject has been brought to my attention a few times in the last couple of years by both friends and customers. I’ve been giving it a lot more thought lately and I can see both sides of the debate that others have and keeps going on in my mind. 

I know that my products aren’t the least expensive choice out there and they might not fit into everyone’s budget and I totally get that. I know one thing that I was accused of lately by a a old YouTube reviewer who didn’t have any influence on my decision on this subject as I took the time to watch a few videos and in my opinion his lathering skills, shaving technique and knowledge of shaving product ingredients sure needs a lot work. I know this person wouldn’t spend more than $15 to $18 for a puck of shave soap so I know he’s never going to be my customer and I’m totally ok with that. He never used my shave soap he just said their ridiculously overpriced, and that I must be very greedy. I my product prices are not the least expensive out there but I also know what’s in those jars and bottles and I also know that my mark ups are less than the normal and that can be confirmed by my vendors. An I also know that greed has never been my motivation in life. My dad a long time ago told me when working, focus on your job and not the money, do the best job you can and then at the end of the work day you can then figure out how much money you’ve made. It has been one of my mottos since I was a kid. When I decided to start this journey into making grooming products I told some of my shaving buddies that if I’m going to do this I’m going to make the best products I’m capable of and bringing the most advanced skin care technology into the wet shaving community because as I saw it the shaving world was years behind both the skincare and haircare industry. I wanted a nice packaging presentation as well as the best packaging environment for my ingredients. I feel like I’ve accomplished that but I’ll never sit on my laurels and I’ll keep pushing the boundaries. 


So now that I’ve got that out here’s the real subject. To make ETHOS both more affordable ( money out of pocket ) without lowering my formulas standards. It was brought to me to think about coming out with a 2 to 2.5 oz size in a thick walled HDPE jar which is like many other soaps out in the marketplace. So between the price difference in the amount of product in the jar and packaging that is about 4 times less than what I use in my normal 4.5 oz jars ( the 7.5 oz size is even more ) this will enable me to offer shave soaps in the $24 compared to the $40 for my basic scents. Of course as normal the prices will vary according to the cost of the Aroma Blend. Example Rose, Violet or Tonka Bean for example would be more like $30 as opposed to the $60 range of the 4.5 oz sizes. 

I have mixed feelings on this and I’ve been in conversations with some customers and friends and I get two distinct responses. One says I like the idea as not only can try a scent without spending between $40 to $60 and also you will probably make the brand more appealing to those wet shavers that refuse to spend anything over $25. An also even your customers that want a lot of variety of scents. The other opinion is your brand is looked at as a premium product and this would be diminishing your image. I’ve even have 2 artisan soap makers that are friends have the exact opposite opinion on this. 

So here I am with this situation and I’ve been in my head about this decision more and more lately. 

An if I was going to put this into motion it would probably take a couple months to get this started.  


I know some may look at this situation from both sides of the fence but please try to put yourself in my shoes before posting up your input. 

I’m hoping to get a lot of responses and so it doesn’t disappear out of site when someone posts a SOTD or asks a question on here can you PLEASE QUOTE THIS POST and fill in your comments as I need this to get as many eyes on this post as possible. 


As always thank you for your support. 


Frank

As usual your overthinking this Frank...lol You have what I'd consider a premium product and that comes at an additional cost compared to most soaps on the market today. As you know I have only recently purchased from you and I'd have to say part of that was of the pricing but more of it was because of the complexities of your scents. Now that I have tried one I will more than likely try another if I find a scent that grabs me in the future. I'm with TommyCarioca on this one and am in the opinion you should maybe do samples in the same way Stirling does. Their 1oz samples I can get 30+ shaves out of and thats enough to make an educated decision if I want to invest in a tub...

As to the Youtubers, I don't think I've ever watched a review that's ever been honest to me and the most pompous ones were done by that idiot Ruds!! That guy never did an honest review in his life and was probably because all the soaps he reviewed were given to him and that's why they were always positive!! Same with several others!! Hate em!!

Long story short, just stay on the path your on cause you make an excellent product and the pricing is in line with the quality!!

POLL: 

I need some input. It’s a big decision I have to make and I’m going back and forth on this one so I need some thoughtful input on this subject. It will be very much appreciated.

Ok so this subject has been brought to my attention a few times in the last couple of years by both friends and customers. I’ve been giving it a lot more thought lately and I can see both sides of the debate that others have and keeps going on in my mind. 

I know that my products aren’t the least expensive choice out there and they might not fit into everyone’s budget and I totally get that. I know one thing that I was accused of lately by a a old YouTube reviewer who didn’t have any influence on my decision on this subject as I took the time to watch a few videos and in my opinion his lathering skills, shaving technique and knowledge of shaving product ingredients sure needs a lot work. I know this person wouldn’t spend more than $15 to $18 for a puck of shave soap so I know he’s never going to be my customer and I’m totally ok with that. He never used my shave soap he just said their ridiculously overpriced, and that I must be very greedy. I my product prices are not the least expensive out there but I also know what’s in those jars and bottles and I also know that my mark ups are less than the normal and that can be confirmed by my vendors. An I also know that greed has never been my motivation in life. My dad a long time ago told me when working, focus on your job and not the money, do the best job you can and then at the end of the work day you can then figure out how much money you’ve made. It has been one of my mottos since I was a kid. When I decided to start this journey into making grooming products I told some of my shaving buddies that if I’m going to do this I’m going to make the best products I’m capable of and bringing the most advanced skin care technology into the wet shaving community because as I saw it the shaving world was years behind both the skincare and haircare industry. I wanted a nice packaging presentation as well as the best packaging environment for my ingredients. I feel like I’ve accomplished that but I’ll never sit on my laurels and I’ll keep pushing the boundaries. 


So now that I’ve got that out here’s the real subject. To make ETHOS both more affordable ( money out of pocket ) without lowering my formulas standards. It was brought to me to think about coming out with a 2 to 2.5 oz size in a thick walled HDPE jar which is like many other soaps out in the marketplace. So between the price difference in the amount of product in the jar and packaging that is about 4 times less than what I use in my normal 4.5 oz jars ( the 7.5 oz size is even more ) this will enable me to offer shave soaps in the $24 compared to the $40 for my basic scents. Of course as normal the prices will vary according to the cost of the Aroma Blend. Example Rose, Violet or Tonka Bean for example would be more like $30 as opposed to the $60 range of the 4.5 oz sizes. 

I have mixed feelings on this and I’ve been in conversations with some customers and friends and I get two distinct responses. One says I like the idea as not only can try a scent without spending between $40 to $60 and also you will probably make the brand more appealing to those wet shavers that refuse to spend anything over $25. An also even your customers that want a lot of variety of scents. The other opinion is your brand is looked at as a premium product and this would be diminishing your image. I’ve even have 2 artisan soap makers that are friends have the exact opposite opinion on this. 

So here I am with this situation and I’ve been in my head about this decision more and more lately. 

An if I was going to put this into motion it would probably take a couple months to get this started.  


I know some may look at this situation from both sides of the fence but please try to put yourself in my shoes before posting up your input. 

I’m hoping to get a lot of responses and so it doesn’t disappear out of site when someone posts a SOTD or asks a question on here can you PLEASE QUOTE THIS POST and fill in your comments as I need this to get as many eyes on this post as possible. 


As always thank you for your support. 


Frank

I agree with what seems to be the strong sentiment that you continue to follow your dad's advice and make the best soaps you can Frank.  That is key to everything.

It's easy to understand that using HDPE and offering a smaller jar option would make the ETHOS brand more widely accessible.  But from the outside looking in, it's very hard to imagine what sizes and shapes would work best for your operation.  That said, from my admittedly limited viewpoint, there seem to be distinct advantages to different options.   

One option that crossed my mind is the largest, widest diameter "small" jar you can manage.  I understand the argument for sample size jars.  They are a tried and true method of introducing customers to a brand, and if the economics dictates sample jars, then so be it.  However, I just can't imagine showcasing the F base soaps - which you make because so many of us like to lather off the puck - by sending these soaps to potential customers in sample size jars.  OTOH if you could have two small size options without going crazy, then the more typical 10-20 ml sample jars could be perfect for the creams.  But if simplicity leads you to choose only one jar, then IMO an admittedly pricier 2.5 or even 3 oz widemouth jar would do better justice to the entire range of your soap lines.  And as for the HDPE, I do think that jars make a difference, but at the risk of stating the obvious, it's what's inside the jar that counts.

That's my 2¢ from the outside looking in Frank, and I hope you don't mind my raising the possibility of a 3 oz size.  I do not know if a jar that big is necessary to lather off of, but I mention 3 oz because there is at least one very well respected artisan who sells 3 oz jars of quality soap in the $23 - $27 range.  So I thought that maybe something like that might work for you.  In any case, good luck sorting everything out.

POLL: 

I need some input. It’s a big decision I have to make and I’m going back and forth on this one so I need some thoughtful input on this subject. It will be very much appreciated.

Ok so this subject has been brought to my attention a few times in the last couple of years by both friends and customers. I’ve been giving it a lot more thought lately and I can see both sides of the debate that others have and keeps going on in my mind. 

I know that my products aren’t the least expensive choice out there and they might not fit into everyone’s budget and I totally get that. I know one thing that I was accused of lately by a a old YouTube reviewer who didn’t have any influence on my decision on this subject as I took the time to watch a few videos and in my opinion his lathering skills, shaving technique and knowledge of shaving product ingredients sure needs a lot work. I know this person wouldn’t spend more than $15 to $18 for a puck of shave soap so I know he’s never going to be my customer and I’m totally ok with that. He never used my shave soap he just said their ridiculously overpriced, and that I must be very greedy. I my product prices are not the least expensive out there but I also know what’s in those jars and bottles and I also know that my mark ups are less than the normal and that can be confirmed by my vendors. An I also know that greed has never been my motivation in life. My dad a long time ago told me when working, focus on your job and not the money, do the best job you can and then at the end of the work day you can then figure out how much money you’ve made. It has been one of my mottos since I was a kid. When I decided to start this journey into making grooming products I told some of my shaving buddies that if I’m going to do this I’m going to make the best products I’m capable of and bringing the most advanced skin care technology into the wet shaving community because as I saw it the shaving world was years behind both the skincare and haircare industry. I wanted a nice packaging presentation as well as the best packaging environment for my ingredients. I feel like I’ve accomplished that but I’ll never sit on my laurels and I’ll keep pushing the boundaries. 


So now that I’ve got that out here’s the real subject. To make ETHOS both more affordable ( money out of pocket ) without lowering my formulas standards. It was brought to me to think about coming out with a 2 to 2.5 oz size in a thick walled HDPE jar which is like many other soaps out in the marketplace. So between the price difference in the amount of product in the jar and packaging that is about 4 times less than what I use in my normal 4.5 oz jars ( the 7.5 oz size is even more ) this will enable me to offer shave soaps in the $24 compared to the $40 for my basic scents. Of course as normal the prices will vary according to the cost of the Aroma Blend. Example Rose, Violet or Tonka Bean for example would be more like $30 as opposed to the $60 range of the 4.5 oz sizes. 

I have mixed feelings on this and I’ve been in conversations with some customers and friends and I get two distinct responses. One says I like the idea as not only can try a scent without spending between $40 to $60 and also you will probably make the brand more appealing to those wet shavers that refuse to spend anything over $25. An also even your customers that want a lot of variety of scents. The other opinion is your brand is looked at as a premium product and this would be diminishing your image. I’ve even have 2 artisan soap makers that are friends have the exact opposite opinion on this. 

So here I am with this situation and I’ve been in my head about this decision more and more lately. 

An if I was going to put this into motion it would probably take a couple months to get this started.  


I know some may look at this situation from both sides of the fence but please try to put yourself in my shoes before posting up your input. 

I’m hoping to get a lot of responses and so it doesn’t disappear out of site when someone posts a SOTD or asks a question on here can you PLEASE QUOTE THIS POST and fill in your comments as I need this to get as many eyes on this post as possible. 


As always thank you for your support. 


Frank

Frank I agree with some ideas on offering samples.

However, we customers mostly are willing to experience what we haven't tried. Just like us customers when you launched your brand.

Using and loving your products for years, I decided to purchase your produces at any price because my skin has been getting better and better.

I agree that some people, newcomers, can be hesitant to start your products at the price because people are all different but I am sure that because we live in a highly fast digital age, before buying your products, they will search for the reviews of the soaps and splashes on the forums or SNS and find out that they will be worth a try and the cost.

But samples, or travel sized ones, will be a good option that doesn't let your brand image down.

Don't be too stressed Frank.

P.S: And all I can say is that I can use your soap forever. It is not diminishing even though I use it with a fine amount. Then I think it is very affordable.

Good point.  As some may know I’m going to be bringing back what we called the travel size in the new “ Mixology Collection “ so I have to buy those jars anyway. Their 1 oz jars and the quality of the jars is right there with it’s larger brothers so maybe this is the answer.  Can sample the scents and the product and from a presentation perspective it fits the brand identity with the brushed Aluminum lid and high quality PETG jar.  I know there’s people out there that could care less about packaging and I may not ever get an order from them but I’ve worked pretty hard to build the brand and my customer base which was built on what I’ve been offering. So maybe the samples in the travel/future mixology jars ( seen below ) is the way to go.

Here’s the three sizes and I’ll post a photo of the other jars I was considering as well.


Please don’t forget to quote and paste so this discussion stays current for now 

Thanks guys! 


The 3 current jars I have 




The thick walled jar I was going to use which would have a white lid like in the photo. 

I like your current offering, though I think samples are worth adding.  Too many sizes can cause other logistical issues and you may end up with jars of one size or another laying around.  Personally I appreciate your attention to quality, I especially appreciate the quality of the ingredients and scents.  I wouldnt want anything to compromise that.

From a production standpoint would you be able to keep up with current demand plus new sales for the new size, there is a lot of overhead to think about and the added hassle and cost may not be worth the time it would take away.

I agree with all of the "sample" recommendations you have had. One half or one ounce would be just fine, for someone to get a few shaves and decide if they like the scent and performance. Stirling offers samples of their shave soaps and Maggards has offered samples of a variety of their products...which has worked well for both of those vendors.

Captain Johnny. Yes sure, agree 1000%

I would have an even lather Hoard os soap if more samples were available. I just hesitate to pull the trigger on some as I am quite picky about scent.

Sent from my SM-A536U using Tapatalk

I agree with all of the "sample" recommendations you have had.  One half or one ounce would be just fine, for someone to get a few shaves and decide if they like the scent and performance.  Stirling offers samples of their shave soaps and Maggards has offered samples of a variety of their products...which has worked well for both of those vendors.

Captain Johnny. Yes sure, agree 1000%

I would have an even lather Hoard os soap if more samples were available. I just hesitate to pull the trigger on some as I am quite picky about scent.

Sent from my SM-A536U using Tapatalk

Ok after many private discussions and what’s been discussed on here I’ve come to the conclusion that I have to maintain the DNA of ETHOS and changing or doing a complete 360 into that white plastic jar just doesn’t sit well with me. So what I’m going to do is bring back the 1 oz Travel/Sample size which will also be used in the Mixology Collection also so from a financial standpoint it makes more sense and especially when it comes to labeling. So folks can give an ETHOS shave soap or Creme a try wether for performance or aroma or both with the 1 oz size. An they can also use these 1 oz jars for creating and mixing your own aroma formulas.

So below is a photo of the 3 sizes in the original Vanilla Safi below for reference. So we can put this subject to bed and move forward.

An is like to thank everyone that voiced their opinions, suggestions and input as I can always count on you. One of the things that I enjoy about this community.

Kindest regards!

Frank

Ok after many private discussions and what’s been discussed on here I’ve come to the conclusion that I have to maintain the DNA of ETHOS and changing or doing a complete 360 into that white plastic jar just doesn’t sit well with me. So what I’m going to do is bring back the 1 oz Travel/Sample size which will also be used in the Mixology Collection also so from a financial standpoint it makes more sense and especially when it comes to labeling. So folks can give an ETHOS shave soap or Creme a try wether for performance or aroma or both with the 1 oz size. An they can also use these 1 oz jars for creating and mixing your own aroma formulas.

So below is a photo of the 3 sizes in the original Vanilla Safi below for reference. So we can put this subject to bed and move forward.

An is like to thank everyone that voiced their opinions, suggestions and input as I can always count on you. One of the things that I enjoy about this community.

Kindest regards!

Frank

Yeah, I was hoping you'd bring those 1oz back.

Hi Frank, I agree with the others about samples/travel sizes being very helpful before ordering full-size jars. 

For me, the packaging doesn't have to be as nice as in your example. It just has to be inexpensive and representative of the scent and performance I will be buying. Like the soap version of a perfume sample, which is usually just a little, glass tube (the nicer ones come with a spray top). The only purpose of the sample for me is to decide whether to buy the soap and matching AS.

The problem I see with artisan soap makers and samples is timing and availability. Let's say Acme Shaving has three types of soaps and aftershaves:
- Ones that are always in stock
- Seasonal or occasional offerings
- New and creative offerings that may not be offered again, or offered in the future without any timetable.

I want to spend around $3 each (or maybe more for your offerings) to get as many Acme samples at one time that I'm interested in as possible, to save on shipping. I'm sure Acme, too, doesn't want to ship a package with two samples. Then I can decide which ones I want to buy now or in the future.

But what happens when I buy a sample of Acme's seasonal Orange Blossom Tobacco that's only offered in the fall?  Or its new Fragrancia, which it may or may not offer again? Then by the time I get the sample and decide to buy the soap and splash/lotion, it is either sold out or out of stock for the season? What is the best way to offer samples when you make one batch at a time of each product and may not have them in stock year-round? I don't have the answers to this, but I think it's worth discussing.

POLL: 

I need some input. It’s a big decision I have to make and I’m going back and forth on this one so I need some thoughtful input on this subject. It will be very much appreciated.

Ok so this subject has been brought to my attention a few times in the last couple of years by both friends and customers. I’ve been giving it a lot more thought lately and I can see both sides of the debate that others have and keeps going on in my mind. 

I know that my products aren’t the least expensive choice out there and they might not fit into everyone’s budget and I totally get that. I know one thing that I was accused of lately by a a old YouTube reviewer who didn’t have any influence on my decision on this subject as I took the time to watch a few videos and in my opinion his lathering skills, shaving technique and knowledge of shaving product ingredients sure needs a lot work. I know this person wouldn’t spend more than $15 to $18 for a puck of shave soap so I know he’s never going to be my customer and I’m totally ok with that. He never used my shave soap he just said their ridiculously overpriced, and that I must be very greedy. I my product prices are not the least expensive out there but I also know what’s in those jars and bottles and I also know that my mark ups are less than the normal and that can be confirmed by my vendors. An I also know that greed has never been my motivation in life. My dad a long time ago told me when working, focus on your job and not the money, do the best job you can and then at the end of the work day you can then figure out how much money you’ve made. It has been one of my mottos since I was a kid. When I decided to start this journey into making grooming products I told some of my shaving buddies that if I’m going to do this I’m going to make the best products I’m capable of and bringing the most advanced skin care technology into the wet shaving community because as I saw it the shaving world was years behind both the skincare and haircare industry. I wanted a nice packaging presentation as well as the best packaging environment for my ingredients. I feel like I’ve accomplished that but I’ll never sit on my laurels and I’ll keep pushing the boundaries. 


So now that I’ve got that out here’s the real subject. To make ETHOS both more affordable ( money out of pocket ) without lowering my formulas standards. It was brought to me to think about coming out with a 2 to 2.5 oz size in a thick walled HDPE jar which is like many other soaps out in the marketplace. So between the price difference in the amount of product in the jar and packaging that is about 4 times less than what I use in my normal 4.5 oz jars ( the 7.5 oz size is even more ) this will enable me to offer shave soaps in the $24 compared to the $40 for my basic scents. Of course as normal the prices will vary according to the cost of the Aroma Blend. Example Rose, Violet or Tonka Bean for example would be more like $30 as opposed to the $60 range of the 4.5 oz sizes. 

I have mixed feelings on this and I’ve been in conversations with some customers and friends and I get two distinct responses. One says I like the idea as not only can try a scent without spending between $40 to $60 and also you will probably make the brand more appealing to those wet shavers that refuse to spend anything over $25. An also even your customers that want a lot of variety of scents. The other opinion is your brand is looked at as a premium product and this would be diminishing your image. I’ve even have 2 artisan soap makers that are friends have the exact opposite opinion on this. 

So here I am with this situation and I’ve been in my head about this decision more and more lately. 

An if I was going to put this into motion it would probably take a couple months to get this started.  


I know some may look at this situation from both sides of the fence but please try to put yourself in my shoes before posting up your input. 

I’m hoping to get a lot of responses and so it doesn’t disappear out of site when someone posts a SOTD or asks a question on here can you PLEASE QUOTE THIS POST and fill in your comments as I need this to get as many eyes on this post as possible. 


As always thank you for your support. 


Frank

Hi Frank, I may be a little late to the part but here’s my thoughts. Don’t compromise your products or your brand to appeal to customers who are never going to buy your products. If they’ve set an arbitrary cap on what they’re prepared to pay for shaving and skincare products and that cap is more important to them than what’s in the jar, how it performs and the effect on their skin than fine. That’s their choice. I don’t think you should use the ubiquitous white tubs. Why? Because everyone uses them and they’re nowhere near as nice as your containers. The 1oz containers are a good option for travel but if you think that the lower price point will attract the aforementioned price is everything buyers you may be mistaken. Those guys will still calculate the per oz cost and cry that it’s more expensive than their preferred brand that fits under their price cap. Obviously smaller containers means higher overhead so maybe you could restrict the smaller containers to one or two fragrances per year rather than doing it for your whole lineup.   At the end of the day I believe that a premium product should command a premium price. That’s how the world works. You use premium ingredients and premium packaging. Why should you settle for a lower return on investment than a guy going budget all the way. If your products weren’t selling it would be a different story and you’d have to revisit the drawing board but I don’t think that’s the case. Who was the YouTube wag with the poor technique anyway? And who cares what he thinks. That’s my two bits worth.