Copy Cats and Market Shift

A couple of observations and I would LOVE others thoughts on this. Has the market shifted to premium? The entries in this market space have grown exponentially over the last three years and more players seem to be entering it regularly. Further, few seem to have exited the space which tells me, the market for premium hardware is growing. My hypothesis is that that the wet shaving world has had a large amounts of entrants (newbies) and few exits. Further, the first 20.00 razor a new entrant into wet shaving starts with, eventually becomes replaced with premium hardware or so it seems?

Second observation, the “clones” of premium offerings seems to be increasing. Raw’s Offering is a prime example. Several plates and “adjustable” is another fine example.... I realize there is only so much ingenuity possible in a shaving implement, but the latest entrants into the market place seem to be tweaking handle length and copying design... etc... to me, it’s insulting and I would hope the community would see these “copy cats” for what they are.

Thoughts?

A couple of observations and I would LOVE others thoughts on this. Has the market shifted to premium? The entries in this market space have grown exponentially over the last three years and more players seem to be entering it regularly. Further, few seem to have exited the space which tells me, the market for premium hardware is growing. My hypothesis is that that the wet shaving world has had a large amounts of entrants (newbies) and few exits. Further, the first 20.00 razor a new entrant into wet shaving starts with, eventually becomes replaced with premium hardware or so it seems?

Second observation, the “clones” of premium offerings seems to be increasing. Raw’s Offering is a prime example. Several plates and “adjustable” is another fine example.... I realize there is only so much ingenuity possible in a shaving implement, but the latest entrants into the market place seem to be tweaking handle length and copying design... etc... to me, it’s insulting and I would hope the community would see these “copy cats” for what they are.

Thoughts?

I too have seen a shift. Barrier to entry and competition are a big reason why people are going premium.

I think the first artisan thing to do is soaps and brushes. Over head is minimal and people will always try a new soap.

With razors - it’s hard to compete against EDWIN Jagger, merkur or Parker. They are sub $100 because of volume - casting has a large barrier to entry. Whereas machining is much cheaper and you can start with Lower quantities.

However machined razors are more expensive. So naturally the market is moving up yes - but into a new category: premium.

I do think a major factor is experience: you want nicer stuff as you get further into hobby. However many newbies will start off with the “best” and spend more upfront that is seen as a 1 Time / lifetime purchase.

I also do agree that many models are copy cats or reboots of a vintage razor. Heck I’ve done one more or less

But we hope that along the way, high tide raises all ships and the designs / materials / functionality of the razors on the market actually forces (through competition) new companies to do better and make a better product - just as we’ve seen with artisan soap.

In 13 years of this hobby, I can honestly say the average consumer is getting much smarter too with the craft. People today can easily name blade gap dimensions, plating finishes, material specs, etc. whereas years ago people were just “switching from cartridges” or “want a cheaper blade”.

Customers are getting savvy, razors are getting new entrants as a new category has begun.

Just my thoughts.

Matt



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Razor Emporium the razor you designed and brought to market hadn’t been produced in decades, the Model T Rockwell has been working on fits that same category, materials and machining of the two are on a completely different playing field zamack vs stainless isn’t even close. Asking 195.00 for one is almost offensive. These examples to me, aren’t copycat designs... they are making what was once great better and to market.

Raw’s offering is doing nothing but taking a blackbird, tweaking a minor detail and putting it in a very fancy box. I’m waiting for the next CNC machinist to extend their handle length and offer scalloped heads and baseplates and rip off timeless.... very fine line between ingenuity and theft in the the premium market space of wet shaving in my view.

Interesting observations. I know it took me a while to get my head around paying over $100 for a razor. The EJ DE-89 was my go to razor when I was starting out and then I tried some ikons and picked up a Wolfman and an Above The Tie. The ATT remains my most expensive razor to date. Then along came the Rockwell 6s which was over $100 Canadian - not cheap but not in the "premium" range either. Its become my daily driver because it just does such a good job for me. Plate #4. I'm in a sweet spot right now with the razors I have and I don't feel any desire to start chasing after some of these premium beauties that are coming out with increasing frequency. Its not like picking up the latest soap for $20 where if you don't like it its not that big a deal. Its a lot more money to risk, yes you can always sell it but you're still going to take a hit unless its a Wolfman and you might make a buck or two.

The market shift I'm seeing is in the software end of things - things have stabilized. Or stagnated, I'm not sure which but there doesn't seem to be a lot of buzz in anticipation of the next release of LEs or seasonals. Maybe things are saturated or people are stepping back and saying Wow! Thats a lot of soap I have there, maybe I ought to slow down. The money may be heading over to hardware now which accounts for the new offerings and if there is a market for premium razors then there will be folks willing to supply the items I reckon. I'm curious to see how this all unfolds.

Interesting observations. I know it took me a while to get my head around paying over $100 for a razor. The EJ DE-89 was my go to razor when I was starting out and then I tried some ikons and picked up a Wolfman and an Above The Tie. The ATT remains my most expensive razor to date. Then along came the Rockwell 6s which was over $100 Canadian - not cheap but not in the "premium" range either. Its become my daily driver because it just does such a good job for me. Plate #4. I'm in a sweet spot right now with the razors I have and I don't feel any desire to start chasing after some of these premium beauties that are coming out with increasing frequency. Its not like picking up the latest soap for $20 where if you don't like it its not that big a deal. Its a lot more money to risk, yes you can always sell it but you're still going to take a hit unless its a Wolfman and you might make a buck or two.

The market shift I'm seeing is in the software end of things - things have stabilized. Or stagnated, I'm not sure which but there doesn't seem to be a lot of buzz in anticipation of the next release of LEs or seasonals. Maybe things are saturated or people are stepping back and saying Wow! Thats a lot of soap I have there, maybe I ought to slow down. The money may be heading over to hardware now which accounts for the new offerings and if there is a market for premium razors then there will be folks willing to supply the items I reckon. I'm curious to see how this all unfolds.

Couldn’t agree more Well said!


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Razor Emporium the razor you designed and brought to market hadn’t been produced in decades, the Model T Rockwell has been working on fits that same category, materials and machining of the two are on a completely different playing field zamack vs stainless isn’t even close. Asking 195.00 for one is almost offensive. These examples to me, aren’t copycat designs... they are making what was once great better and to market.

Raw’s offering is doing nothing but taking a blackbird, tweaking a minor detail and putting it in a very fancy box. I’m waiting for the next CNC machinist to extend their handle length and offer scalloped heads and baseplates and rip off timeless.... very fine line between ingenuity and theft in the the premium market space of wet shaving in my view.

There will always be a market for the copies as well,whether some consider it theft or not.Once a patent expires,or make a few changes to current design,it is open slather for those who can manufacture a copy for a reasonable price.Futur copies for example.Yes there are a lot more higher end manufacturers than before,but there are a lot of people in the market that cannot afford or justify the expense of those higher end products.I would love to have a Timeless Bronze but on my budget,at this point of time,it is not going to happen.If a Chinese manufacturer can produce a copy,at 30% or even less of the price to the consumer,with same tolerances and good QC,then they will sell thousands.Geez,I would buy one and I don't even mind if it came with a few scratches,I can polish those out myself.
The higher end producers have no problem in selling their quality items,especially if they do limited edition runs.Some sell out within minutes of dropping on the market,then get resold at extravagant prices.The lower end producers will have no problem selling their copies either because there will always be people like me that just cannot afford the top of the line stuff.

Razor Emporium the razor you designed and brought to market hadn’t been produced in decades, the Model T Rockwell has been working on fits that same category, materials and machining of the two are on a completely different playing field zamack vs stainless isn’t even close. Asking 195.00 for one is almost offensive. These examples to me, aren’t copycat designs... they are making what was once great better and to market.

Raw’s offering is doing nothing but taking a blackbird, tweaking a minor detail and putting it in a very fancy box. I’m waiting for the next CNC machinist to extend their handle length and offer scalloped heads and baseplates and rip off timeless.... very fine line between ingenuity and theft in the the premium market space of wet shaving in my view.

There will always be a market for the copies as well,whether some consider it theft or not.Once a patent expires,or make a few changes to current design,it is open slather for those who can manufacture a copy for a reasonable price.Futur copies for example.Yes there are a lot more higher end manufacturers than before,but there are a lot of people in the market that cannot afford or justify the expense of those higher end products.I would love to have a Timeless Bronze but on my budget,at this point of time,it is not going to happen.If a Chinese manufacturer can produce a copy,at 30% or even less of the price to the consumer,with same tolerances and good QC,then they will sell thousands.Geez,I would buy one and I don't even mind if it came with a few scratches,I can polish those out myself.
The higher end producers have no problem in selling their quality items,especially if they do limited edition runs.Some sell out within minutes of dropping on the market,then get resold at extravagant prices.The lower end producers will have no problem selling their copies either because there will always be people like me that just cannot afford the top of the line stuff.

Great points - agree 100%


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I'm a Mfg in trailer towing products and keenly feel, and battle the effects of copycat and intellectual property rip-offs. As we are also in the premium market I will share that cheap copycats are not as harmless as they seem. At the end of the day, the reason we can afford to bring newer technology and innovative ideas to a market is due to brand equity. People who are enthusiasts or professionals know our company by hard-won reputation and expect any product we Mfg will exactly fit the need it was created to address. Thus they are willing to pay a premium for our premium product. But we can't stay in business selling just to this group. Developement of new products is not cheap nor free of risk. Copycats wish to shortcut the process to the money. In attempting to do so they most often short-cut engineering and materials. Thier product might look correct but performance is not up to snuff, and in my case public safety is jeopardized. I fully recognize that consumer budgets are real and some cannot afford what we build. That does not make ripping off our ideas, designs, engineering, and riding our hard-won market cachet honorable. Because they ONLY build to a price point, they will never produce a product that accomplishes what we state it will do. But in the mean time the segments of the market who really don't know the difference are left with a bad taste and often that vitriol lands on me. As a Mfg who lives the battle, and who pays attorneys to protect our brand, I well understand the piracy juggernaut. I will never be tempted to purchase a Murkur clone and I detest companies that wish to take someone's current design and copy it in an attempt to take advantage of another mans hard work, sleepless nights, and proven product. I see it as unscrupulous at best and outright theft at worst. I see no issue re-engineering a no longer available product. I know my opinions are strong and others will have a different point of view but my money will always go to the original because I know and feel deeply what it took to make the idea a reality.

Lipripper660 Love this and agree 100 percent!!!!! Great post

I'm a Mfg in trailer towing products and keenly feel, and battle the effects of copycat and intellectual property rip-offs.  As we are also in the premium market I will share that cheap copycats are not as harmless as they seem.  At the end of the day, the reason we can afford to bring newer technology and innovative ideas  to a market is due to brand equity.  People who are enthusiasts or professionals know our company by hard-won reputation and expect any product we Mfg will exactly fit the need it was created to address.  Thus they are willing to pay a premium for our premium product.  But we can't stay in business selling just to this group.  Developement of new products is not cheap nor free of risk.  Copycats wish to shortcut the process to the money.  In attempting to do so they most often short-cut engineering and materials.  Thier product might look correct but performance is not up to snuff, and in my case public safety is jeopardized.  I fully recognize that consumer budgets are real and some cannot afford what we build.  That does not make ripping off our ideas, designs, engineering, and riding our hard-won market cachet honorable.  Because they ONLY build to a price point, they will never produce a product that accomplishes what we state it will do.  But in the mean time the segments of the market who really don't know the difference are left with a bad taste and often that vitriol lands on me.  As a Mfg who lives the battle, and who pays attorneys to protect our brand, I well understand the piracy juggernaut.  I will never be tempted to purchase a Murkur clone and I detest companies that wish to take someone's current design and copy it in an attempt to take advantage of another mans hard work, sleepless nights, and proven product.  I see it as unscrupulous at best and outright theft at worst.  I see no issue re-engineering a no longer available product.    I know my opinions are strong and others will have a different point of view but my money will always go to the original because I know and feel deeply what it took to make the idea a reality.

I couldn't agree more - very well said. You refer to your business of trailer towing where public safety is at risk. The knock offs/ counterfeit parts game is everywhere including aircraft parts where engineering tolerances and metallurgy are critical and a failure of a part in operation can have catastrophic consequences. I wonder if this might be behind the recent SWA inflight engine explosion although there was talk of a bird strike, still the front of the engine should not have come apart like that.. Also look at the smart phone business - every single smart phone out there is an Apple knock-off. Companies like Samsung do it knowingly in the confidence that the time it will take to wind through the courts will allow them to get a foothold in the marketplace. They do it without innovation or market risk.

Obviously razors are not exactly the same from a risk perspective but the principles are the same - a domestic company invests in design, engineering and innovation and assumes all the market risk and then a "competitor" sweeps in and knocks off the razor at an overseas factory and takes advantage of all the innovator's work, investment and risk. Its just wrong and in most cases in violation of intellectual property laws. The problem is that the innovator has to take steps to protect his intellectual property rights and that can be very costly. Its one thing for an iPhone but quite another for a small operation. Its also a fact that knock offs rarely are as functional and refined as the original and the people that buy them won't even know that because they won't ever have used the original and won't have the frame of reference to make the comparison. If I'm going to buy one of these razors, I'm going to budget and save and buy the real deal. Then I won't have to constantly wonder if I'm getting the shave I should be getting, because if you have the knock off, you know that's what you're thinking every time you use it.