Be Aware – Terrible Experience involving TATARA RAZORS

Longer Version:

I pissed off a lot of people because I chose to air my dispute with Tatara publicly.
A couple of forums banned me as well. 

Many thought I was blaming Tatara for my stuck return when I was simply pointing 
out the risks of returning goods to them...and suggesting that buyers may want to factor that
into their purchase decisions.

There was also another aspect to this which I could not speak of while the matter was under arbitration.
Namely the mistakes I allowed myself to be talked into....this is all on me as I was dumb enough to agree.
While on a call discussing my return with Tatara, the subject of duties into Portugal came up and I made
some calls that were, in hindsight, pretty problematic.

I agreed to send the item as a Gift....I also agreed to describe it as a 'Used Metal Base Stand' and value it at
15 Euro...just because I felt bad for Tatara and did not want them to get hit with any fees. This is why I had
no insurance and no recourse if Paypal had ruled against me. This is why I was extremely upset when my
return was stuck for 56 days and counting.

If I were to return a product in future to anyone, I will make sure I do not commit any of these amateurish
mistakes, for my own peace of mind.

Alternatively, if I was #Tatara, I would remove that line on their website that claims the Muramasa Adjustable
is "suitable for all hair and skin types'...it's a claim that is open to misinterpretation. I would also make it clear
on the Returns portion of the FAQ that Portuguese Post is an unreliable carrier and to factor that into
calculations.

Thanks for posting your experience and glad you got resolution to it

Thanks Tester28 for posting this thread and the outcome of your PayPal dispute. It provides a great service to other members to see the sorts of issues that can arise and the challenges we face in resolving them despite the good faith of everyone concerned. Both vendors and customers take a big leap of faith when we put our money/products in the hands of third party shippers whether it’s postal or couriers. The vast majority of transactions go off without a hitch but when things go wrong we’re often left to deal with a completely impenetrable black hole. It’s good to see a positive conclusion.

Good to hear it was all resolved and I personally thought nothing wrong of this thread and found it very informative...

When I have sold things on eBay that I am willing to ship overseas, I ALWAYS stress the fact that I will not fudge values etc. on the customs forms. Just asking for unwanted troubles in doing that.

I don’t think there is any evidence here that Portuguese post is unreliable. This was just one package that got held up - which can (and does) happen anywhere - so there is no basis to draw any conclusion. Now that we also know the shipment details were falsely declared on the customs form there may be good reasons why this shipment got stuck. What still confuses me is that returns should not be subject to duties or taxes, so the way this was handled seems wrong and unnecessary (and clearly the Tatara employee got this part wrong).

Hopefully we can distill from this some lessons about how to handle international returns. Some dos and don’ts. Does anyone know the correct procedure? To be honest I have only made returns for defective items rather than because I did not like the product, so I always push for the vendor to arrange and pay for the return shipment. In these circumstances, where the return was more of a “goodwill” arrangement, I guess you can’t really insist on that. I realise the OP argues that this product was defective or not as advertised, but I think in reality that is not the case - at least not legally.

I don’t think there is any evidence here that Portuguese post is unreliable. This was just one package that got held up - which can (and does) happen anywhere - so there is no basis to draw any conclusion. Now that we also know the shipment details were falsely declared on the customs form there may be good reasons why this shipment got stuck. What still confuses me is that returns should not be subject to duties or taxes, so the way this was handled seems wrong and unnecessary (and clearly the Tatara employee got this part wrong).

Hopefully we can distill from this some lessons about how to handle international returns. Some dos and don’ts. Does anyone know the correct procedure? To be honest I have only made returns for defective items rather than because I did not like the product, so I always push for the vendor to arrange and pay for the return shipment. In these circumstances, where the return was more of a “goodwill” arrangement, I guess you can’t really insist on that. I realise the OP argues that this product was defective or not as advertised, but I think in reality that is not the case - at least not legally.

Since this was a case where opinions could get subjective, it was essential to try it in the public
square, as well as the dispute rooms of Paypal.

What does 'Item not as described' mean in Paypal's lexicon?

Could be any one of these:

'I ordered a pink scarf, you sent are a blue one'
'I ordered a fork, you sent me a spoon'
'I ordered a kettle, you sent me one with a chip on the spout'

It could also be:

"You described an item to be suitable for ALL hair and skin types, and I have tried it and determined this to be untrue"

The important thing to note is that the manufacturer accepted this verdict even before PP got involved, and also my
return...Paypal were only called in to arbitrate when the return started to drag on beyond six weeks.

PP also agreed to my definition of item not as described which you can verify from the screenshot in Post #40...so
we can perhaps cite it as precedent from now on? My advice to any razor maker is: do not make any claims at all or at least
vet them with someone who knows about the implications.

Also, while you say there is no evidence that Portuguese Post is unreliable, I think a transit time of 56 days (as of today)
is ample evidence that they are. I would, in fact, counter by saying that you have no evidence to claim that only one
package was held up (mine) and the rest sailed through.

There is absolutely no basis to assume that my package was singled out, and only because the package had a false declaration.
I've already mentioned that I followed the seller's instructions on labelling as I did not want to put my return in jeopardy.
I've also owned up that this was not smart and resolved to be more circumspect. So this isn't the gotcha moment you may
think it is.

You should know that the seller has cleared the package from customs after paying a fee of 2 Euro. It was never held
up for the reasons you are speculating upon.

But I applaud you for acknowledging that it is good to shed light on such things.

No, I would never have aired so strongly in public a rant that I expected a particular razor to be more efficient than it is, or repeatedly claim that a manufacturer is a bad company to deal with because of this and that I had a delayed shipment for the return. One of us is being unreasonable. It could be me but I am not the one who was banned from multiple forums.

Honestly, you posted this stuff over and over again in multiple places and from what I saw very few people agreed with you. It all read like a vendetta against the manufacturer.

If we’re being honest.

No, I would never have aired so strongly in public a rant that I expected a particular razor to be more efficient than it is, or repeatedly claim that a manufacturer is a bad company to deal with because of this and that I had a delayed shipment for the return. One of us is being unreasonable. It could be me but I am not the one who was banned from multiple forums.

Honestly, you posted this stuff over and over again in multiple places and from what I saw very few people agreed with you. It all read like a vendetta against the manufacturer.

If we’re being honest.

I think you are very much mistaken if you think I posted this incident for people to agree with me.

Who cares?

I did it to inform the community and keep the spotlight firmly on the issue until it was resolved.
What matters is that the pressure was enough to get what was promised to me.

And from now on, anyone who is researching a purchase with Tatara will benefit from the insights thrown up here
and elsewhere.

I just wanted my money back and wasn't prepared to keep calm and carry on...that's probably a very Brit
thing to do.

It is very important IMO to encourage and incentivise merchants who go out of their way to provide great
service (Eg Homelike Shaving of Omsk, Siberia)....and also to draw attention to those who should do better.

Why can't we take this for what its worth?  Lessons learned and shared?   I think this subject is thoroughly canvased and I'm re-closing the thread.

It may not have been clear but we re-opened the thread at OP's request so he could post the follow up resolution. The Mods thought it was the right thing to do. Now the thread has run its course.