Barrister and Mann

Will, is there any chance of a Barrister's Reserve coming out in Bay Rum?  I think its been said before and not just by me, that the Barrister and Mann riff on Bay Rum is very special indeed.  With Kyovu on hiatus the Bay Rum heads among us will be looking for something Bay Rummy - now, being a cautious person I do have about one and a half bottles of Kyovu Bay Rum on hand but seriously, how long can that last?
Thanks,
Mark

No, that's highly unlikely (but not impossible). There will be a Tonique version at some point, though. Again, once we have finished other projects.

I was hoping you'd say otherwise. Right now I am aware of only 3 Bay Rum aftershaves that have any kind of real conditioning effect and that would be your Kyovu (suspended), Tallow & Steel's Grog and Krampert's Acadian Spice Bay Rum aftershave. Apart from those you have to look to balms to give you that feel in bay rum. I do like my other bay rums but a straight up alcohol based aftershave can be a little drying particularly in the winter.

I'm going to focus on the "but not impossible" in your post and remain hopeful that Barrister's Reserve Bay Rum will one day become a reality.

Will, is there any chance of a Barrister's Reserve coming out in Bay Rum?  I think its been said before and not just by me, that the Barrister and Mann riff on Bay Rum is very special indeed.  With Kyovu on hiatus the Bay Rum heads among us will be looking for something Bay Rummy - now, being a cautious person I do have about one and a half bottles of Kyovu Bay Rum on hand but seriously, how long can that last?
Thanks,
Mark

No, that's highly unlikely (but not impossible). There will be a Tonique version at some point, though. Again, once we have finished other projects.

I was hoping you'd say otherwise.  Right now I am aware of only 3 Bay Rum aftershaves that have any kind of real conditioning effect and that would be your Kyovu (suspended), Tallow & Steel's Grog and Krampert's Acadian Spice Bay Rum aftershave.  Apart from those you have to look to balms to give you that feel in bay rum. I do like my other bay rums but a straight up alcohol based aftershave can be a little drying particularly in the winter.  

I'm going to focus on the "but not impossible" in your post and remain hopeful that Barrister's Reserve Bay Rum will one day become a reality.

Apologies, my friend. If you can find me a truly excellent discontinued bay rum splash (which, admittedly, would be different from ours since our fragrance is not IFRA compliant), I'd be happy to consider it for preservation.

No, that's highly unlikely (but not impossible). There will be a Tonique version at some point, though. Again, once we have finished other projects.

I was hoping you'd say otherwise.  Right now I am aware of only 3 Bay Rum aftershaves that have any kind of real conditioning effect and that would be your Kyovu (suspended), Tallow & Steel's Grog and Krampert's Acadian Spice Bay Rum aftershave.  Apart from those you have to look to balms to give you that feel in bay rum. I do like my other bay rums but a straight up alcohol based aftershave can be a little drying particularly in the winter.  

I'm going to focus on the "but not impossible" in your post and remain hopeful that Barrister's Reserve Bay Rum will one day become a reality.

Apologies, my friend. If you can find me a truly excellent discontinued bay rum splash (which, admittedly, would be different from ours since our fragrance is not IFRA compliant), I'd be happy to consider it for preservation.

What does it mean to be/not be IFRA compliant? What turns on that designation? I know what IFRA is but thats about it.

I realize that bay rum as a fragrance does not get a lot of love despite the obvious popularity of the scent as evidenced by the market and the fact that virtually every soap / aftershave maker has a bay rum in its lineup. I don't know if bay rum just doesn't appeal to one's artistic sensibilities the way recreating some old Russian fragrance might or what it is but I do know that my 87 year old father considers bay rum to be the fragrance preferred by labourers, longshoreman and general wearers of dungarees. I'd rather hang around with those fellows than most of the boardroom fancy perfume types I've had the misfortune of knowing over the years.

I was hoping you'd say otherwise.  Right now I am aware of only 3 Bay Rum aftershaves that have any kind of real conditioning effect and that would be your Kyovu (suspended), Tallow & Steel's Grog and Krampert's Acadian Spice Bay Rum aftershave.  Apart from those you have to look to balms to give you that feel in bay rum. I do like my other bay rums but a straight up alcohol based aftershave can be a little drying particularly in the winter.  

I'm going to focus on the "but not impossible" in your post and remain hopeful that Barrister's Reserve Bay Rum will one day become a reality.

Apologies, my friend. If you can find me a truly excellent discontinued bay rum splash (which, admittedly, would be different from ours since our fragrance is not IFRA compliant), I'd be happy to consider it for preservation.

What does it mean to be/not be IFRA compliant?  What turns on that designation?  I know what IFRA is but thats about it.  

I realize that bay rum as a fragrance does not get a lot of love despite the obvious popularity of the scent as evidenced by the market and the fact that virtually every soap / aftershave maker has a bay rum in its lineup.  I don't know if bay rum just doesn't appeal to one's artistic sensibilities the way recreating some old Russian fragrance might or what it is but I do know that my 87 year old father considers bay rum to be the fragrance preferred by labourers, longshoreman and general wearers of dungarees.  I'd rather hang around with those fellows than most of the boardroom fancy perfume types I've had the misfortune of knowing over the years.

The IFRA (the International Fragrance Association) promulgates regulations regarding the usage levels of various materials in perfumes. Certain (many) ingredients can only be used up to a certain percentage of the final product. Our Bay Rum is not compliant with said regulations because of its incorporation of raw orange oil, which is a restricted substance thanks to the fact that it contains the compound citral. Adapting the formula would be also be somewhat difficult because it contains mostly natural ingredients, which are, in analytical perfumery terms, "noisy." They contain many compounds that do not contribute to the fragrance whatsoever and there can be overlap of component compounds between ingredients. This can make it difficult to determine what proportions are needed of various component compounds in order to re-create the fragrance properly while still complying with IFRA regulations. It may be possible to bring the fragrance as-is into compliance; I'll check with the lab.

I get the impression that you think that I don't want to do it because I have some kind of conceit regarding the origins and uses of bay rums in general. That is in no way the case; what I'm trying to do is safeguard the fragrances used in Reserve such that they can be sold globally. In order to do so, they must comply with IFRA regulation. Further, the aim of the project is to preserve fragrances no longer made, be they simple or complex, high-perfume or drugstore aftershave. It's not that I don't want to have a bay rum in the line; it's that I want to remain true to the archival aim of the project, and so would vastly prefer to save a bay rum that otherwise faces annihilation at the hands of some perfume house's overzealous accounting department. If you can find me such a bay rum (I seem to recall that Burt's Bees produced one that was exceedingly highly regarded), then I would be delighted to enshrine it beneath the umbrella of Barrister's Reserve.

Marco, wow, that last paragraph really reads negatively. I'd go as far as to say it sounds hostile. And, since you started with your father's anecdotal example, I'll counter with the fact that I've worked blue collar for the majority of my life and I dislike bay rum scents. I don't mean to fight negative with negative, but I don't think insulting soap makers is the intent of this forum.

Marco, wow, that last paragraph really reads negatively. I'd go as far as to say it sounds hostile. And, since you started with your father's anecdotal example, I'll counter with the fact that I've worked blue collar for the majority of my life and I dislike bay rum scents. I don't mean to fight negative with negative, but I don't think insulting soap makers is the intent of this forum.

Hmm? Perhaps I read it differently, but I didn't see Marko's post as negative or hostile. He was expressing his opinion and like about the scent in a civil manner, at least to me. The impression it gave me is that he prefers it's simplicity over other more complex scents, surely many of us do hold the same opinion about certain things. Sometimes I just want a nice, well made, juicy burger instead of a fancy Foie Gras.

I hope Will wouldn't take offense to that. Will is one of us here, we can talk to him like one of the guys.

Marco, wow, that last paragraph really reads negatively. I'd go as far as to say it sounds hostile. And, since you started with your father's anecdotal example, I'll counter with the fact that I've worked blue collar for the majority of my life and I dislike bay rum scents. I don't mean to fight negative with negative, but I don't think insulting soap makers is the intent of this forum.

You must be kidding. Marko is probably the biggest B&M fan on this forum and a stand up guy. I highly doubt he meant any ill will or insult in his post. I also doubt that Will took it as such.

First, I meant no disrespect nor was I trying to be hostile and I apologize if it appeared that I was. I suppose you'd have to understand my family history and if there appeared to be any hostility in my comment it certainly wasn't directed at Will. I am a Journeyman Carpenter and worked in the trades years ago, I am a lawyer and have worked on the operations side and the corporate side of some very large energy companies. I've been a roughneck on drilling floors and I've spent summers on railroad ballast gangs where we actually drove rail spikes by hand - yeah the CPR can be cheap with modern equipment. My point is that I don't share the views of my father on many things including bay rum.

I must admit that I did initially misconstrue Will's remarks regarding the preservation of discontinued fragrances. It is possible that I hadn't paid close enough attention to the whole genesis of the Barrister's Reserve Project. It was this morning after a good night's sleep that it came to me that the recreation and preservation of classic fragrances from the past was a big part of the Barrister's Reserve Project. I admit that sometimes it takes me a little longer to pick up on things but I think I get it now. Its amazing how a good night's sleep can clear your mind. In any case I understand what Will was telling me and it makes sense too. At the time I couldn't quite grasp the relevance of a classic discontinued bay rum.

I'd still like to see a really great bay rum with the performance qualities of the Barrister's Reserve lineup.
Thank you,
Mark

Will, thanks for the primer on the IFRA.
Mark

First, I meant no disrespect nor was I trying to be hostile and I apologize if it appeared that I was.  I suppose you'd have to understand my family history and if there appeared to be any hostility in my comment it certainly wasn't directed at Will.  I am a Journeyman Carpenter and worked in the trades years ago, I am a lawyer and have worked on the operations side and the corporate side of some very large energy companies.  I've been a roughneck on drilling floors and I've spent summers on railroad ballast gangs where we actually drove rail spikes by hand - yeah the CPR can be cheap with modern equipment.  My point is that I don't share the views of my father on many things including bay rum.

I must admit that I did initially misconstrue Will's remarks regarding the preservation of discontinued fragrances. It is possible that I hadn't paid close enough attention to the whole genesis of the Barrister's Reserve Project.  It was this morning after a good night's sleep that it came to me that the recreation and preservation of classic fragrances from the past was a big part of the Barrister's Reserve Project.  I admit that sometimes it takes me a little longer to pick up on things but I think I get it now.  Its amazing how a good night's sleep can clear your mind.  In any case I understand what Will was telling me and it makes sense too. At the time I couldn't quite grasp the relevance of a classic discontinued bay rum.  

I'd still like to see a really great bay rum with the performance qualities of the Barrister's Reserve lineup.
Thank you,
Mark

Will, thanks for the primer on the IFRA.
Mark

My pleasure, Marko, and no worries at all. Truth be told, the discussion has gotten me rather interested in the idea of a Reserve: Bay Rum product, so I've been looking into discontinued/lost bay rums in an effort to find one that seems to be worth preserving. I know that Burt's Bees Bay Rum was VERY highly regarded, especially in its original formulation, but does anyone have any other suggestions for a lost bay rum scent that they would consider worth saving?