#11

Member
Great Britain
(02-18-2021, 08:14 PM)DanLaw Wrote: Thought so

Anybody needing a brush abroad, reach out. I will assist you free of charge


I would assume no license no export as a business, but as long as the company has a license to import/export they could to private customer’s on small orders without requiring a permit/inspection which is costly and can take weeks to receive a permit prior to export (which triggers a charge Rudy Ve mentioned). As long as the order has a copy of the business license then it would clear customs and then be part of the usual customs charges for duty and VAT.


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#12
Its American Badger, not the one that is used mainly for brushes the European Badger (Meles meles). Have not heard of someone using the US badger for brushes, would be interesting to find out if they could be used. Instead of Manchurian, we will have Wisconsian Badgers.... Big Grin
#13

Posting Freak
Peachtree City, GA
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2021, 12:39 AM by DanLaw.)
Are Chinese badgers controlled species per EU and UK laws?  If so, is non commercial post legal?  

I am a private individual offering to send as a gift to another private individual in a private transaction involving no monetary exchange for goods or services
#14
I believe as a private person, you can do this without any issues. Just if your business is making shaving brushes, you may get into a problem when you are caught.

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#15

Member
Great Britain
(02-19-2021, 12:39 AM)DanLaw Wrote: Are Chinese badgers controlled species per EU and UK laws?  If so, is non commercial post legal?  

I am a private individual offering to send as a gift to another private individual in a private transaction involving no monetary exchange for goods or services


I believe the UK law covers all badgers worldwide, it must be on the list of accepted countries your importing from to guarantee standards. Chinese badger is legal in UK and importing from USA to UK is legal I would assume it’s because of USA standards of regulations on native badger and imports and exports.


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#16

Member
Great Britain
(02-19-2021, 12:56 AM)rudyvey Wrote: I believe as a private person, you can do this without any issues. Just if your business is making shaving brushes, you may get into a problem when you are caught.


I read it as long as the business has a license then it would be ok to trade to private individuals fir personal and private use. I would think that their would be a threshold on the number of units per shipment before it’s then considered a trade import or export which would need a permit.


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#17
(02-18-2021, 04:38 PM)rudyvey Wrote: True, some of us artisans, like Paladin and myself, have permits from US Fish and Wildlife service to be able to import badger hair knots. The fee is I think $93 per shipment, and it is applied if it is only 1 knot or 100. The same fee would be applied if I send a brush outside the US. So far, I have not found a customer outside the US that would be willing to pay this fee additionally to the cost of brush plus the much higher international shipping rates. I know, I do lose some business with this, but the fine one would have to pay is way too high for me as a small artisan business. Ken wrote about this on B&B some time ago, and I just wrote this the other day on B&B:

"No, not when you follow the laws....I, as well as some other of the artisan makers, have a permit from US Fish and Game to import badger hair knots from outside the USA (like from Shavemac, they are in Germany...). We could, however, sell and ship outside, but there is a fee involved, and so far no-one wanted to pay this.....I believe the fee is $93 per shipment.
There was some discussions here a few years back.
In principle, I can only ship to an address in the USA. I think Sears, Paladin and some others also do not ship outside the USA, but I could be wrong.
I am citing here an excerpt from a post made by Chiefbroom (I think he is a lawyer by trade, so he would know better than I do) some time ago:

"U.S. Federal Law provides that any person or entity engaged in either commercial import and/or export of wildlife or a wildlife product (which a shaving brush containing badger hair qualifies as) must 1) have a permit issued by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and 2) comply with all applicable inspection, reporting, and record-keeping laws and regulations.

I've been given to understand by a law enforcement officer of the FWS that individuals who fail to declare commercial import or export of wildlife products may be subject to penalties of up to $60,000 per violation. That's probably not a likely result in the context under discussion; the law as it applies to import/export of badger-hair shaving brushes is largely observed in the breach. But the risk is still there. And then there's the risk of having our license revoked, which would would be ruinous.

The biggest problem here isn't declaration (of an import or export) per se; it's that declaration triggers inspection, which carries a fee of $93 (or thereabouts) per shipped container. That’s not such a big deal when the $93 is being spread across 100 or 200 brushes. But it's a deal killer as applied to a single brush."

+1

I used be a lawyer. Every time I renew our license (required annually), I have to sign a statement to the effect that I've read the applicable law, which I have done, repeatedly. I've also had several conversations with representatives of the US FWS. I think the law as it stands is absurd, but I don't have time to waste fighting it, although I actually offered to travel to DC at my own expense to testify before a committee (or some such body) responsible for reviewing the regulations. The senior enforcement agent in Virginia who suggested doing that and promised follow-up ended up retiring instead.

FWIW, the problem for us isn't the hassle involved (which some persist in claiming) or even legal prohibition. It's economics. And yes, it's galling that makers/vendors in Europe and China seem to encounter little if any significant obstacles in selling individual brushes into the US while law-abiding artisans here are effectively blocked from engaging in commercial export of even single brushes anywhere outside the US (excepting FPO, APO, etc. addresses).

Bottom line, we have too much committed and too much at risk to run the risks of non-compliance.
#18
Pasted in below is a post I put up on B&B about 2 1/2 years ago in response to a couple of guys there who had stated: Guy 1) "I have occasionally found U.S. companies refusing to ship outside the U.S. for one more or less credible reason or another. Over time, I have come to believe that in many cases it is just a thinly disguised excuse for not getting involved with international (credit card or PayPal) billing or shipping." Guy 2) "Sounds like an excuse not a law. Vote with your dollars and go elsewhere."

[Begin quoted text]

I have a small, family-owned and operated business making shaving brushes. We do not export our brushes outside the US because US law makes export of small orders prohibitively time-consuming and expensive. That's a fact, not an opinion.

When we were in a position to make our brushes available to ex-US customers based on a cooperative relationship with Lee Sabini in England, about 25% of our sales were to customers outside the US. It hardly serves the interest of US artisan-makers to forego ex-US sales, especially when makers from every other country in the world can ship brushes to individual buyers in the US with no obstacles given standing enforcement policies. (Buyers in the US are responsible for compliance, not sellers exporting into the US. And private buyers of brushes for personal use are, at least as a practical matter, exempt from enforcement). Why would anyone rather make excuses than sell brushes?

U.S. Federal Law provides that any person or entity engaged in either commercial import and/or export of wildlife or a wildlife product (which a shaving brush containing badger hair qualifies as) must 1) have a permit issued by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and 2) comply with all applicable inspection, reporting, and record-keeping laws and regulations.

I've been given to understand by a law enforcement officer of the FWS that individuals who fail to declare commercial import or export of wildlife products may be subject to penalties of up to $60,000 per violation. That's probably not a likely result in the context under discussion; the law as it applies to import/export of badger-hair shaving brushes is largely observed in the breach. But the risk is still there. And then there's the risk of having our license revoked, which would would be ruinous.

The biggest problem here isn't declaration (of an import or export) per se; it's that declaration triggers inspection, which carries a fee of $93 (or thereabouts) per shipped container. That’s not such a big deal when the $93 is being spread across 100 or 200 brushes. But it's a deal killer as applied to a single brush.

Someone with a business interest and effective political connections managed to bring this situation to the attention of the FWS about six years ago. I think it was a company in Minnesota that produces deer-skin moccasins (I'd guess Minnetonka). On October 26, 2012, the FWS published an interim rule providing an exemption from the inspection fee for businesses meeting certain criteria. FWS said the rulemaking was based on a recognition that its regular inspection fee schedule (adopted in 2009) may have placed an undue economic burden on businesses that exclusively trade in small volumes of low-value, non-Federally protected wildlife parts and products.

Since publication of the interim rule, businesses have been able to request participation in the low-risk user-fee exemption program. To qualify for the program, a business and all of its wildlife import and export shipments must meet the following criteria:

The wildlife does neither requires a permit or certificate under 50 CFR Parts 15, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22, or 23 nor is listed as injurious under 50 CFR Part 16;

The wildlife is not live;

Each shipment contains 25 or fewer wildlife parts or products;

Each shipment contains wildlife parts or products valued at $5,000 or less;

The business has not been assessed a civil penalty, issued a notice of violation, or convicted of any misdemeanor or felony violation for any wildlife import/export violation; and

The business has had no more than 2 shipments that were refused clearance in the 5 years prior to the submission of the request to participate.

The Low Risk Fee Exemption Program was actually a grope in the right direction. However, it doesn't reflect a studied understanding of how regulations that over-reach legitimate policy objectives can adversely affect entrepreneurial efforts to compete on the international stage, which is brutal enough without being caught in the cross-hairs of friendly fire.

My little LLC holds the required FWS import/export permit. It does not, however, qualify for the low-risk fee exemption program by reason of the fact we frequently import shipments containing more than 25 badger-hair knots. Even if we could qualify for the exemption, which some smaller makers might be able to do, we'd still have to fulfill the reporting requirements, and that’s a time-consuming task for the sake a single brush sale. For example, to complete the report form the exporter needs to identify in advance the US port through which the shipment will be processed by US Customs. There may be a simple way to obtain that information in the case of a shipment to be handled by the USPS, but I haven’t found it yet. FedEx and USP would be much easier to use in that regard, but the expense of shipping a brush from the U.S. using either of those carriers can be ridiculous.

I'm in business with my wife and my son. We've invested a lot of time, money, and effort in making the best shaving brushes we possibly can. Competition is fierce. Chinese makers export brushes into the US at prices lower than those we pay for knots. Copies of our original designs (e.g. the Lotus) are commissioned to be made in Europe for the given reason that our brushes "are notoriously difficult to obtain." Knock-offs by the same European maker are commissioned by buyers in the US and praised for being "inspired dead ringers." Again, what possible reason would I, or any other US maker, have to fabricate excuses in order to avoid selling our brushes to customers outside the US? Some of us are simply not willing to run the risks, as absurd as they are.

[End quoted text]

Down the same thread another guy posted: "Not to stir the hornet's nest, but I just received two badger knot from the US with no extra charges. One was from Shave Forge and the other from Grizzly Bay, both off Esty. The weird thing is that Grizzly Bay has there own website where it says they can't ship badger hair knots internationally. My question now, is there something with Esty or eBay that allows a small business owner or hobbyist to ship internationally?"

I replied as follows:

The threshold question is whether or not an instance of shipping a badger-hair brush to a non-military (i.e., non-US) address outside the US would constitute "commercial export". I've been told by a US F&WS enforcement officer that if there is consideration paid in exchange for the brush, then there has been a commercial transaction.

We've had many brushes purchased by buyers outside the US who made forwarding arrangements. As long as we're shipping to a US address and the forwarder isn't acting as our agent, then I don't worry. That said, we had a brush returned to us just last week by a forwarder engaged on behalf of a customer in Sweden. Someone opened the package (why I do not know), saw "Select Badger", and that was all it took.

Other than the fee exemption program described in my earlier post to this thread, there are no special rules for Etsy, small business owners, or hobbyists. Either there is a commercial transaction fulfillment of which involves export, or there isn't. If there is, then filing of the special declaration is required (along with prescribed package markings), and the shipment is subject to inspection.

Your experience stands as an example of the fact this particular law is overwhelmingly observed in the breach.

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