Badger brushes cost - is it a markup or real?

Hi friends
I have been studying the Badger world as I progress as a Newbie and plan on getting my first Badger brush.

I understand that all badger knot come from suppliers in China and are set into handles by artisans and manufactures.
Cost of a hi-end knot by it’s self varies between 40-90 USD. Knot like 3 band silver tips and what is named as Manchurian (I understand that there are no real Manchurian Badgers and it is just a grade evaluation)Hi Mountain and silver tips are all around these prices.

Manufactures like Simpson do further processing to the knot and bring it to a higher esthetic and performance level, 
And then comes the handle 

In my web surfing I could find a very nice Silver tip Badger from a manufactures like Zenith in a price of 80 USD and similar (if not identical)knots on artisan handles in prices that are over 400 and more USD

If I would buy a vintage handle, a very nice one in mint condition, and a knot from a great knot supplier, set them as a brush - I would end up with a cost around 50-90 USD.

How is it that we are seeing a market with Badger brushes over 400 USD, what am I missing here?
Really appreciate your input, please 

A Silvertip Knot, 27 mm, extra density



Zenith Manchurian 2 band 27mm

There are handle artisans purchasing pretied knots, there are knot artisans tying knots and there are brush maker artisans producing both the handle and tying the knots.

My perspective is the knot artisans are most critical to a really top notch badger brush with the handle artisans coming a close second.

With 1 exception for Bob Quinn at Elite (Bob's handles are THAT good), all my best brushes have come from artisans producing both the knot and handle.

Apologies for having gone this far without addressing your root question: I cannot tell you how to value your money. From my perspective, possessing a disfigured angular face and life long skin issues, will spend more on shaving items because aesthetics are even worse with a beard and the irritation from shaving is nearly unbearable. Thus, although I have little, spend disproportionally on limited quantities of high end shave software and hardware that mitigates the pain. Certainly, possess nowhere near the gear of some and frankly don't want to irrespective of resources. Am neither a collector nor hobbyist. I hate shaving but need do so to be able to circulate in public.

Your reasons for shaving and acquiring gear are likely different from mine, certainly an outlier, and you must decide what is right for you.

However, bear in mind, in this and all other facets of life, that you are paying both for a man's time spent producing an item as well as the life time of sacrifice it took over the years to perfect that craft.

Know many people that have been lucky securing positions requiring little skill and mostly connections (many times at taxpayer expense), that boast of their success yet resent anybody actually making a decent living doing productive work. Don't be those guys. Pay a man fully what his productive work is worth. We all do better in a society with capable craftsmen actually making something of value to better peoples' lives. A society can only last so long with everybody taking and nobody actually doing productive work.

There are handle artisans purchasing pretied knots, there are knot artisans tying knots and there are brush maker artisans producing both the handle and tying the knots.

My perspective is the knot artisans are most critical to a really top notch badger brush with the handle artisans coming a close second.

With 1 exception for Bob Quinn at Elite (Bob's handles are THAT good), all my best brushes have come from artisans producing both the knot and handle.

Thank you Dan, Does Bob tie his knots?

I recently got into badger knots myself, last Fall. I have only bought one full badger brush, made by Trotter Handcrafts. All the rest are knots from Maggard Razors, The Golden Nib, and Shave Forge, which I set into handles I had using RTV silicone. There is a gent here on the forum that restores vintage handles, and I put knots into those as well as some Trotter handles. I have had great luck with the Maggard SHD 2-bands. And then there are mixed badger/boar knots! My favorite is the 70/30 mix from AP Shave Co.

See how the tunnels keep branching out and twisting around?!

Thank you Dan, Does Bob tie his knots?

Not that I am aware. Would ship off to Scott at Declaration Grooming

Hi friends
I have been studying the Badger world as I progress as a Newbie and plan on getting my first Badger brush.

I understand that all badger knot come from suppliers in China and are set into handles by artisans and manufactures.
Cost of a hi-end knot by it’s self varies between 40-90 USD. Knot like 3 band silver tips and what is named as Manchurian (I understand that there are no real Manchurian Badgers and it is just a grade evaluation)Hi Mountain and silver tips are all around these prices.

Manufactures like Simpson do further processing to the knot and bring it to a higher esthetic and performance level, 
And then comes the handle 

In my web surfing I could find a very nice Silver tip Badger from a manufactures like Zenith in a price of 80 USD and similar (if not identical)knots on artisan handles in prices that are over 400 and more USD

If I would buy a vintage handle, a very nice one in mint condition, and a knot from a great knot supplier, set them as a brush - I would end up with a cost around 50-90 USD.

How is it that we are seeing a market with Badger brushes over 400 USD, what am I missing here?
Really appreciate your input, please 

A Silvertip Knot, 27 mm, extra density



Zenith Manchurian 2 band 27mm

You're entering a whole crazy world with badger especially when you start looking at artisan made brushes and knots.

Most of what has currently been considered the best knots of today are artisan made knots made with what is commonly called manchurian hair.  This includes DG, TNS, Oumo, Mozingo, etc.  They usually have some amount what is called gelling to make the tips softer, depending on the point in time they were purchased they could be extremely geled or slightly.  I dont know if its changed but I dont think Simpson does any geling.

Simpson and Shavemac offer 2-Band Silvertip and in the case of Simpson it is different enough that they offer specific tiers between it and manchurian, what the difference is in the end I don't really know but I do prefer my Simpson 2-band over my Simpson Manchurian.

IMO Simpson or Shavemac would be a very good place to start, especially if you want to try non-geled first.  If you want a good geled brush and dont want to start in the $400 range talk to Ryan at Tanz, or Paul at trotter.  Both offer really great looking handles and very very good knots for great prices.

Thank you Dan, Does Bob tie his knots?

Not that I am aware. Would ship off to Scott at Declaration Grooming

I would add Allen Long @LongShaving to the list

Keep in mind that most vintage handles have very small openings which may be hard to find a knot you like in a size that would fit. Not impossible but can be a challenge at times and should be kept in mind. Don't overlook Saponificio Varesino brushes too. I love the 2 I acquired 2nd hand.

Hi friends
I have been studying the Badger world as I progress as a Newbie and plan on getting my first Badger brush.

I understand that all badger knot come from suppliers in China and are set into handles by artisans and manufactures.
Cost of a hi-end knot by it’s self varies between 40-90 USD. Knot like 3 band silver tips and what is named as Manchurian (I understand that there are no real Manchurian Badgers and it is just a grade evaluation)Hi Mountain and silver tips are all around these prices.

Manufactures like Simpson do further processing to the knot and bring it to a higher esthetic and performance level, 
And then comes the handle 

In my web surfing I could find a very nice Silver tip Badger from a manufactures like Zenith in a price of 80 USD and similar (if not identical)knots on artisan handles in prices that are over 400 and more USD

If I would buy a vintage handle, a very nice one in mint condition, and a knot from a great knot supplier, set them as a brush - I would end up with a cost around 50-90 USD.

How is it that we are seeing a market with Badger brushes over 400 USD, what am I missing here?
Really appreciate your input, please 

A Silvertip Knot, 27 mm, extra density



Zenith Manchurian 2 band 27mm

You're entering a whole crazy world with badger especially when you start looking at artisan made brushes and knots.

Most of what has currently been considered the best knots of today are artisan made knots made with what is commonly called manchurian hair.  This includes DG, TNS, Oumo, Mozingo, etc.  They usually have some amount what is called gelling to make the tips softer, depending on the point in time they were purchased they could be extremely geled or slightly.  I dont know if its changed but I dont think Simpson does any geling.

Simpson and Shavemac offer 2-Band Silvertip and in the case of Simpson it is different enough that they offer specific tiers between it and manchurian, what the difference is in the end I don't really know but I do prefer my Simpson 2-band over my Simpson Manchurian.

IMO Simpson or Shavemac would be a very good place to start, especially if you want to try non-geled first.  If you want a good geled brush and dont want to start in the $400 range talk to Ryan at Tanz, or Paul at trotter.  Both offer really great looking handles and very very good knots for great prices.

Some great suggestions for custom brushes. You can also get a nice looking handle, in designs and colors, from the likes of Paladin... But I believe theirs are all mass machine produced (limited designed, with much repetition), for more money than Trotter, etc charge.

It's hard to beat the homemade ones... unique designs, large variety, and handmade work... But you lose the name recognition like Paladin or Louis Vuitton. Just don't hold any social gatherings in your bathroom? Lol.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

If I may… look at Lee Sabini knots too.  

I love Shavemac 2 band (Rudy Vey) and Brad Sears (Lee Sabini).  

Some people love big knots, some love gelled tips.  

I like minimally processed, 22-26mm knots.