#81

Merchant
Santa Rosa - CA
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2023, 06:35 PM by AionSkincare.)
I just finished shaving with bits of Trésor + Iris soaps. I also mixed the aftershave. What an extraordinary combination! Smile

I can't stop talking about the outrageous levels of residual slickness Maxima affords! This level makes a huge difference when using razors like the Feather DX non-folding version with a Feather Super blade. This combo is what I used while developing Maxima.

You can feel the moisturizing effect very early on during the shave.

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#82

Posting Freak
Peachtree City, GA
(12-29-2023, 05:17 PM)RayClem Wrote: Shavers who use straight razors often claim that using a lather that is somewhat wet works better for them. I found that Maxima can take a wide range of hydration levels and still meet my hydration test explained in my post above. A wetter lather typically improves slickness while a drier lather typically improves cushion/protection. I always try to obtain a suitable balance between the two properties. Start with a lather that is slightly on the drier side but not so dry that it is difficult to rinse from the razor. Then add water a few drops at a time until you find the lather is getting too wet. Somewhere between the extremes you should be able to find the exact consistency/viscosity that works for you.

So true regarding glide and straights. Even with my extraordinarily sensitive and damaged skin, find glide far more critical than cushion for straights.

However, safety razors, even those as perfectly designed and conceived as Blackland Razors' Vector Ti, require a prioritization of cushion over glide; thus the preference of GroomingDept Mallard, Dragonsbeard ETHOS and whollykaw when safety razor shaving.

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#83

Member
gone to Carolina in my mind
(12-29-2023, 02:58 PM)RayClem Wrote:
(12-29-2023, 07:38 AM)1700Z shadow Wrote: I have been using the latest Maxima releases for the last couple weeks and I haven't had the easiest time with them, I was surprised too! Long story shorter, you really need to have a damp brush not wrung nearly dry. What kept happening repeatedly for me was I would end up with such thick goo in my brush that it wouldn't release it to build a lather, I am not kidding. The more water I added, the thinner my lather got. I thought I was losing it as these soaps take a bucket load of water, as long as it's added gradually. I finally risked making a mess of the soap jar and just went for it(with some thought involved)! I kept adding water and adding more and the lather was increasing like I had pushed the button on a can of shaving cream. The other thing that I discovered is that you really need to use some agitation to build the lather before painting in water to thin to desired consistency, with some soaps I have begun preferring to face lather by painting which keeps the lather low density. This can be accomplished with Maxima, just using a different route to get there. I am really enjoying the soaps that I got, the scents are masterpieces as usual. To spread everything out, I have decided to use each one, in my rotation, for three months in '24, leaving open Fall to pull out one of my older ones or... possibly a new formulation of Cedarwood?!

Are you face lathering or bowl lathering?  If you are struggling with lathering any of Mo's soaps, you might experiment with my lathering method.  I find that it works with nearly every artisan soap, but not soft croaps or triple milled tallow pucks. 

I rarely face lather as my skin is so sensitive that I can get brush burn if I try to face lather. I do have a few brushes that are soft enough to use for face lathering (Savile Row silvertip, Simpson Trafalgar T3 and a well broken in Omega boar). But I normally bowl lather and paint the lather on my face to minimize brush contact time.

1. I soak my brush in warm water for a few minutes and the squeeze and shake out all excess water leaving the brush damp, but not wet.

2. I pour 1 Tablespoon (15 ml) of hot water into my tub of shaving soap. I allow the water to remain in the tub for 10 seconds, swirling occasionally. This loosens the top layer of soap. The bloom water contains lots of "goodies" extracted from the soap, so never pour it down the drain. Since I bowl lather, I pour the bloom water into my lather bowl. I then take my damp brush and load for 10 seconds directly from the tub. Since the top layer of soap was loosened by the blooming process, you do not need much loading pressure. This should give you approximately 1.5 grams of soap in the brush. This might produce more lather than you need for your shave, but I would suggest starting here. You might be able to cut back to 10 ml of water and 1 gram of soap, if you need less lather. I do four shave passes (WTG, XTG, ATG, and clean-up) plus a bonus lather after my shave for skin conditioning. 

3. I then take the loaded brush and dip it into the shave bowl containing the bloom water. This give you approximately a 10:1 water to soap ratio by weight. I have found this is a great starting point for most artisan soaps (I have over 200 in my den). Start swirling the brush around the bowl, startling slowly at first to incorporate the water and then more vigorously afterward. Keep swirling until large bubbles break down and you have a smooth lather. With my better soaps (including Kairos, Mallard and Maxima), this should not take more than 30 seconds. If you are using a very small brush (less than 22mm diameter), or your bowl lacks texture, it might take longer. I use a ceramic bowl from a mortar and pestle set. Since they are made for grinding spices, etc. the surface is rough and ideal to provide the sheer needed to build a lather rapidly.

4. Now paint the lather on your face. If you want to use the brush to work the lather into your face and beard, you can certainly do so. Then take a few strokes with your razor and test for proper hydration.

5. Here is my procedure for testing for proper hydration of your lather. I fill my sink with warm water until it reaches the overflow. Then I cut the flow back to a trickle. If you live in an area where water use is restricted, then you can use a small bowl rather than the entire sink. After taking a few strokes with your razor, lather should build up on the razor. Gently dip the razor into the water in the sink or bowl and observe what happens.

a. If lather tends to stick to the razor such that you need to swirl it around in the water to release the stuck lather, the lather is too dry and you need to add a little more water to properly hydrate the lather.

b. If the lather immediately releases from the razor and disperses throughout the water, the lather is too wet. In that case, you need to add more soap. Touch your brush gently to the soap in the tub to pick up a little more soap and incorporate it into your lather. 

c. When the lather is properly hydrated, it should release easily from your razor (whether straight, DE or SE) and float to the surface like a cloud of lather. Within the range of proper hydration, you can make the lather slightly wetter, which tends to enhance slickness, or slightly drier, which tends to enhance skin protection. I have sensitive skin, so I am always looking for a balance between slickness and protection. I often will add a few drops of water to my lather bowl between passes to prevent the lather from drying out. I keep my lather bowl on top of a Glade candle warmer that keep the lather at a comfortable 120F, but that does tend to dry the lather over time. 


One reason I use the 10 second bloom is that it affects only the top layer of soap. If you bloom longer than that or if you load with a wet brush, it can leave the soap soggy. While leaving your soap soggy is ideal if you are using a triple milled tallow puck like Williams Mug Soap, Tabac or Mitchell's Wool Fat, it can make a mess of softer artisan soaps. Even at that, I leave the top of my soap tub for 24 hours to let any excess moisture evaporate from the tub before putting the lid back on.

@1700Z shadow

Try my method and see if you have success. Let me know how it turns out.
FWIW 1700Z shadow, I had the good fortune to run across RayClem's method some time ago in another forum.  With very minor tweaking, it has worked excellently for me, and it did not take long to tweak the dials to suit my circumstances.  (It's a long story, but my circumstances all stem from the fact that my water is abysmally hard.)

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Technique Trumps Tools
Skin Care Trumps Skin Repair

Be Cool, be Kind, and be Well
--  Mike --
#84

Member
Ca, USA
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2023, 05:25 AM by 1700Z shadow.)
(12-29-2023, 02:58 PM)RayClem Wrote:
(12-29-2023, 07:38 AM)1700Z shadow Wrote: I have been using the latest Maxima releases for the last couple weeks and I haven't had the easiest time with them, I was surprised too! Long story shorter, you really need to have a damp brush not wrung nearly dry. What kept happening repeatedly for me was I would end up with such thick goo in my brush that it wouldn't release it to build a lather, I am not kidding. The more water I added, the thinner my lather got. I thought I was losing it as these soaps take a bucket load of water, as long as it's added gradually. I finally risked making a mess of the soap jar and just went for it(with some thought involved)! I kept adding water and adding more and the lather was increasing like I had pushed the button on a can of shaving cream. The other thing that I discovered is that you really need to use some agitation to build the lather before painting in water to thin to desired consistency, with some soaps I have begun preferring to face lather by painting which keeps the lather low density. This can be accomplished with Maxima, just using a different route to get there. I am really enjoying the soaps that I got, the scents are masterpieces as usual. To spread everything out, I have decided to use each one, in my rotation, for three months in '24, leaving open Fall to pull out one of my older ones or... possibly a new formulation of Cedarwood?!

Are you face lathering or bowl lathering?  If you are struggling with lathering any of Mo's soaps, you might experiment with my lathering method.  I find that it works with nearly every artisan soap, but not soft croaps or triple milled tallow pucks. 

I rarely face lather as my skin is so sensitive that I can get brush burn if I try to face lather. I do have a few brushes that are soft enough to use for face lathering (Savile Row silvertip, Simpson Trafalgar T3 and a well broken in Omega boar). But I normally bowl lather and paint the lather on my face to minimize brush contact time.

1. I soak my brush in warm water for a few minutes and the squeeze and shake out all excess water leaving the brush damp, but not wet.

2. I pour 1 Tablespoon (15 ml) of hot water into my tub of shaving soap. I allow the water to remain in the tub for 10 seconds, swirling occasionally. This loosens the top layer of soap. The bloom water contains lots of "goodies" extracted from the soap, so never pour it down the drain. Since I bowl lather, I pour the bloom water into my lather bowl. I then take my damp brush and load for 10 seconds directly from the tub. Since the top layer of soap was loosened by the blooming process, you do not need much loading pressure. This should give you approximately 1.5 grams of soap in the brush. This might produce more lather than you need for your shave, but I would suggest starting here. You might be able to cut back to 10 ml of water and 1 gram of soap, if you need less lather. I do four shave passes (WTG, XTG, ATG, and clean-up) plus a bonus lather after my shave for skin conditioning. 

3. I then take the loaded brush and dip it into the shave bowl containing the bloom water. This give you approximately a 10:1 water to soap ratio by weight. I have found this is a great starting point for most artisan soaps (I have over 200 in my den). Start swirling the brush around the bowl, startling slowly at first to incorporate the water and then more vigorously afterward. Keep swirling until large bubbles break down and you have a smooth lather. With my better soaps (including Kairos, Mallard and Maxima), this should not take more than 30 seconds. If you are using a very small brush (less than 22mm diameter), or your bowl lacks texture, it might take longer. I use a ceramic bowl from a mortar and pestle set. Since they are made for grinding spices, etc. the surface is rough and ideal to provide the sheer needed to build a lather rapidly.

4. Now paint the lather on your face. If you want to use the brush to work the lather into your face and beard, you can certainly do so. Then take a few strokes with your razor and test for proper hydration.

5. Here is my procedure for testing for proper hydration of your lather. I fill my sink with warm water until it reaches the overflow. Then I cut the flow back to a trickle. If you live in an area where water use is restricted, then you can use a small bowl rather than the entire sink. After taking a few strokes with your razor, lather should build up on the razor. Gently dip the razor into the water in the sink or bowl and observe what happens.

a. If lather tends to stick to the razor such that you need to swirl it around in the water to release the stuck lather, the lather is too dry and you need to add a little more water to properly hydrate the lather.

b. If the lather immediately releases from the razor and disperses throughout the water, the lather is too wet. In that case, you need to add more soap. Touch your brush gently to the soap in the tub to pick up a little more soap and incorporate it into your lather. 

c. When the lather is properly hydrated, it should release easily from your razor (whether straight, DE or SE) and float to the surface like a cloud of lather. Within the range of proper hydration, you can make the lather slightly wetter, which tends to enhance slickness, or slightly drier, which tends to enhance skin protection. I have sensitive skin, so I am always looking for a balance between slickness and protection. I often will add a few drops of water to my lather bowl between passes to prevent the lather from drying out. I keep my lather bowl on top of a Glade candle warmer that keep the lather at a comfortable 120F, but that does tend to dry the lather over time. 


One reason I use the 10 second bloom is that it affects only the top layer of soap. If you bloom longer than that or if you load with a wet brush, it can leave the soap soggy. While leaving your soap soggy is ideal if you are using a triple milled tallow puck like Williams Mug Soap, Tabac or Mitchell's Wool Fat, it can make a mess of softer artisan soaps. Even at that, I leave the top of my soap tub for 24 hours to let any excess moisture evaporate from the tub before putting the lid back on.

@1700Z shadow

Try my method and see if you have success. Let me know how it turns out.
Thanks Ray. We have chatted about this in the past on another forum actually. I have switched to mostly face lathering now, but I have no doubt that I would have had an easier time with the bowl. Like I said, I figured it out and wanted to share in case anybody else was having similar issues. I will review your post and see if I missed anything.

You know after re-reading your post a couple times, I think I must have gotten most of my technique from you sometime in the past because I am doing all of those things(just without the bowl now). I miss having time for it, but face lathering is pretty enjoyable.

DanLaw, AionSkincare, HighSpeed and 2 others like this post
#85
I never wring out my brushes completely. Just one press to release the bulk of water and then quickly flip the brush right side up so that whatever water remains sinks into the breach of the brush. Then flip your tub upside down and begin loading the brush by swirling it a few seconds. When you feel resistance, flip the bowl and the brush at the same time and the small amount of water in the breach will sink into the tips of the brush and that will help pick up more soap. You'll feel that swirling gets easier again as the water moves into the brush tips and when it feels pasty you're done loading. This shouldn't take more than about 15 seconds start to finish. Paint the soap on your face and dip the brush tips into your sink full of water whenever you feel resistance and repeat. You know You're lather is ready when your brush glides effortlessly over the skin as if it were ice.

I personally don't like adding more water to my tubs beyond what the brush sheds into it but it's entirely your decision.

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#86

Merchant
Santa Rosa - CA
[Image: QFzopPY.png]
I enjoy working with my new AI partner Smile

Rebus Knebus, AlphaFrank75, bluewater23t and 11 others like this post
#87

Merchant
Santa Rosa - CA
[Image: OVxdYw1.png]

#WIP

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#88

Merchant
Santa Rosa - CA
[Image: tCcSviw.jpg]


Working on the label for the Kölonisch rerelease. 

Check out the razor AI invented Smile

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#89

Emperor of Shaving
First use with the 2023 Maxima base and I was not disappointed.  I think this is a true culmination of all of the best GD bases rolled into one.  Especially the Nai formula. The extra residual slickness is great.  You can do touch ups and and even a light full pass again without regathering.  The vetiver scent was spot on. Plenty of simple vetiver with woody undertones and musk coming out later on. Definetly some similarties to Visage.  Happy I went with the Vetiver. The aftershave was also amped up from the previous formula. Hydrated the face very well with an even slightly more pronounced scent.

[Image: mEgK7cQ.jpg]

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Carmine
"veni, vidi, vici"

#90
[Image: lSIZlhw.jpg]

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