A serious question on Soap/Cream Reviews

Have you ever done a youtube soap review?   If not, how can you comment on it?

I am not qualified to comment on the videography (i.e., the focal lengths, directing, lighting, sound levels). If you want to talk photography, ask away. OTH, I am more than qualified to comment on the contents of movies/videos just as you and everyone else is who watches any movie or TV show. All of humanity does that every day.

   

Have you owned 400 soaps (or even say 50, which is a crapload)?   If not, how do you know that soap reviewers are wrong?

Not 400, I used maybe 250. 50 isn't a crapload, its a beginning. So  yes, I can speak intelligently on those 250 or so I have tried and have done so to a degree here.

I was speaking with a soap maker the other day (not Will at B&M) about a bunch of stuff and he mentioned to me that someone complained about the color of his soap.  This was a total surprise to me that anyone even cared the slightest bit.  My response was "What the hell difference does it make what color it is?"  As long as it doesn't impact the performance of the shave I couldn't care less if it were, brown, green, blue or purple.  It makes no difference to me at all.  

The one exception I can think of is GFT released a Violet soap that some have stated would stain their brush.  I tried it anyway and didn't experience the staining myself but I only used it one time.  So, I guess I don't want a soap that'll stain my brush but other than that I don't care what color it is.  

So I'm wondering why the color of a soap even matters, it's just soap.

It’s not the color of the soap – it’s the color of the lather. BadDad and primotenore got the short answer right. It looks like sewage. The long answer is more complicated.

First, GFT Rose will give a slight stain to a brush. The lather is a bit pinkish. While wet, the brush tips will take on this color, which can be disconcerting. However, once dried, they dry a normal color. But pinkish lather might bother some.

Second, GFT Violet is a light purple color and will stain the tips of brushes worse than the Rose. However, it takes more than drying. Once you use the brush with “normal” color soaps the tips of the brush go back to normal – in my experience. But these could freak out those who wonder if their white tips are ruined. Now to this color.

Forget about the small numbers of people in this niche “hobby”. The vast majority of men view shaving as a mundane task they hate. It’s a waste of time usually done in the early AM and a pain. Think about it. Who wants to scrape a sharp object against their skin, scrape away skin cells, and then throw alcohol on top causing pain?  Does that make sense – and pay money to do it? This is how the majority views it (Not talking about a tiny minority who “can’t wait to shave”). You must view "all men who shave" and not just the tiny subset in forums. Using objects and consumables that make this journey more pleasant eases the aggravation, and make no mistake about it, for the majority of men it’s an aggravation.

So getting beyond the typical attributes of slickness, residual slickness, cushion, and scent, there are other attributes that exist. Scent is a predominate one. If it stinks, you probably wont use it and 30% of olfactory sensors can be different between users. One person’s rose is another’s sewage. Beyond olfactory, there is the tactile or face feel. Some lathers “feel” better than others. They feel thick and soft while others are thin or bubbly even if the bubbles are tiny. Beyond tactile is the auditory feedback. I can just listen to the blade cutting and know which lather is doing a better job at hydration. Some just sound better doing their job and you know it. Last is the visual feedback.

Throughout history, and I will only go back to the 50s where are there are many examples of commercials; soap is white (i.e., lather), period. White denotes cleanliness. This is ingrained into about everyone. Ivory soap is 99 and 44/100% pure, whatever that means. Colored soaps, when lathered, turn white. A pinkish lather or light violet lather from GFT, to me, looks weird, but does not denote dirt, just strange.

So I fill by sink with warm water, rinse the razor, and its starts to turn brown. I looked at my notes on this and noted the lather looked like milk chocolate.  My sink turned a light brown, and by the end of  shaving it looked like sewage (going back to what baddad said).

It doesn’t matter if it’s the BEST soap ever. While olfactory, audible, and tactile senses are important, nothing is more important than the visual cues. So draw your own logical conclusions. In a world where many people declare that all the good soaps are more or less alike, which one are you going to use?

One that looks good to you or one that looks … less than desirable? If your sink looks dirty, it doesn’t matter how good the soap might be – to me it just looks dirty.

Have you ever done a youtube soap review?   If not, how can you comment on it?

I am not qualified to comment on the videography (i.e., the focal lengths, directing, lighting, sound levels). If you want to talk photography, ask away. OTH, I am more than qualified to comment on the contents of movies/videos just as you and everyone else is who watches any movie or TV show. All of humanity does that every day.

   

I actually agree with most of your arguments.  I just wanted to turn your post against you because I thought you exaggerated a little...and because I had nothing better to do at the time.  

If you don't play golf, then you can't intelligently discuss it.

Jim Rome did not play in the NFL (he played tennis in high school), yet he discusses football intelligently (or not) all the time.

You have never created a youtube review, yet you are able comment on the contents.   Agreed.    So, how much golf do you need to play in order to intelligently discuss this sport?

Have you owned 400 soaps (or even say 50, which is a crapload)?   If not, how do you know that soap reviewers are wrong?

Not 400, I used maybe 250. 50 isn't a crapload, its a beginning. So  yes, I can speak intelligently on those 250 or so I have tried and have done so to a degree here.

I asked how many soaps you have owned, not how many soaps you have sampled.    If most experienced wet shavers believed that owning 50 soaps is just a beginning then I'm in some serious trouble.   I only own around 10 soaps...and half of them are the Arkos and the Cellas that are always recommended to noobs.  


My plan is to only own 10 exceptional soaps.   I have purchased 5 so far (Nuavia, Pure2O, Sudsy Soapery, B&M and SV), so I'm halfway there.    Thanks for the link to your thread.    I wish I could try SMN and ABC but they are just to expensive to purchase just to see if I like them.   I guess I'll just have to live with Nuavia and MdC (tried a sample of MdC and loved the performance).

So the common denominator with people that don't like brown soap appears to be that they leave their sink drain closed and rinse the razor in the sink water which then turns it to a dirty brown color giving the user the impression that it's unclean. I'd say that you're using water that's unclean anyway as it water sitting in your sink that you're repeatedly rinsing your razor isn't very pure anyway. The fact that the water is brown isn't the only factor. Why not just run the razor under the faucet so that it's truly clean. Washing something in dirty water to me doesn't make it clean. That water contains bits if shaven stubble, some small particles of skin, and whatever else was residing in your sink during your shaving process.

I know that people have done it this way for decades, and I get the water conservation thing as well. But other than conservation why not just rinse the dirty water down the drain and enjoy the brown soaps the same as the others? That's what I do with a straight razor as well as a de razor and it works great. I turn the water on just long enough to rinse off the lather and then I turn it back off again. I've also heard of people putting a wet sponge in the sink to wipe the straight razor on, this may be an alternative to the brown water as well.

Jim Rome did not play in the NFL (he played tennis in high school), yet he discusses football intelligently (or not) all the time.

You have never created a youtube review, yet you are able comment on the contents.   Agreed.    So, how much golf do you need to play in order to intelligently discuss this sport?

Does he play recreationally rather than professionally? If so, he probably knows what's going on. If not, I have no idea. I'd guess he probably plays on the weekends and if you do that, after awhile you know the difference.

Professional golfers do NOT play the same game as the weekend golfers. The difference is a vast chasm that you can only know if you watch in person. TV does not convey the difference. You play regularly, then watch the pros in person - they are two different games, but at least you know what's going on.

I asked how many soaps you have owned, not how many soaps you have sampled.    If most experienced wet shavers believed that owning 50 soaps is just a beginning then I'm in some serious trouble.   I only own around 10 soaps...and half of them are the Arkos and the Cellas that are always recommended to noobs.   My plan is to only own 10 exceptional soaps.    

Own 10 exceptional soaps, according to what you think is exceptional, is a fine plan. In fact, in the end, I would like to get it down to 5.  There is no way I am going to buy 50 full products that I will never use in my lifetime. I got other uses for that money. For those that do spend their disposable money on stock, its their money and they can do as they please. But in the big scheme of my life, there are more important things for me to buy than a consumable product that sits on a shelf and rots.

Life is too short as it is. I got things to do, places to go, and people to see, as they say. And only so much money

So the common denominator with people that don't like brown soap appears to be that they leave their sink drain closed and rinse the razor in the sink water which then turns it to a dirty brown color giving the user the impression that it's unclean.  I'd say that you're using water that's unclean anyway as it water sitting in your sink that you're repeatedly rinsing your razor isn't very pure anyway.  

Thats not relevant. While technically probably true, visual cues are what matters and are ingrained since childhood in most humans.

People's perceptions are their reality. Don't confuse it with facts

Great point David. I never got the whole filling the sink with water to rinse with. I don't want to rinse my razor or face in nasty soap/stubble/dead skin cell water. And I can say I probably don't use as much water using the faucet for 1 second per rinse as I would by filling the sink. As for water conservation goes, you're not really saving water. It doesn't just disappear down the drain, never to be seen or used again. It's called the water cycle. Now if you're doing it to save money on the water bill, I get that.

Regarding water conservation--

In California, currently, every township and city is required to reduce their overall water consumption by a pre-determined amount over the previous year, or they face a large penalty. This means that each individual resident of the township is required to reduce their water consumption. If we don't all reduce our consumption, we all get fined.

By "consumption" we are talking about the gallons-per-hour that pass through each water meter. It doesn't matter how much might get recycled back into the system, they count what passes through the meter.

Turning the faucet on for 2-3 seconds after every stroke of the razor for a 3 pass head shave seems like it would have more water passing through my meter than filling a small basin for the full shave. Let's guesstimate at approximately 300 seconds of running water using that method(100 strokes, 3 seconds per stroke), which is about 5 minutes of running water, versus 60-90 seconds of running water to fill the basin...if that much.

To my mind, it works out...

As for the brown water...I've gotten over it. I quickly realized it was not a concern, so I no longer let it concern me. I was just trying to provide an anecdotal response as to why soap color might matter to some people...

Jim Rome did not play in the NFL (he played tennis in high school), yet he discusses football intelligently (or not) all the time.

You have never created a youtube review, yet you are able comment on the contents.   Agreed.    So, how much golf do you need to play in order to intelligently discuss this sport?

Does he play recreationally rather than professionally? If so, he probably knows what's going on. If not, I have no idea. I'd guess he probably plays on the weekends and if you do that, after awhile you know the difference.

Professional golfers do NOT play the same game as the weekend golfers. The difference is a vast chasm that you can only know if you watch in person. TV does not convey the difference. You play regularly, then watch the pros in person - they are two different games, but at least you know what's going on.

I asked how many soaps you have owned, not how many soaps you have sampled.    If most experienced wet shavers believed that owning 50 soaps is just a beginning then I'm in some serious trouble.   I only own around 10 soaps...and half of them are the Arkos and the Cellas that are always recommended to noobs.   My plan is to only own 10 exceptional soaps.    

Own 10 exceptional soaps, according to what you think is exceptional, is a fine plan. In fact, in the end, I would like to get it down to 5.  There is no way I am going to buy 50 full products that I will never use in my lifetime. I got other uses for that money. For those that do spend their disposable money on stock, its their money and they can do as they please. But in the big scheme of my life, there are more important things for me to buy than a consumable product that sits on a shelf and rots.

Life is too short as it is. I got things to do, places to go, and people to see, as they say.  And only so much money

So the common denominator with people that don't like brown soap appears to be that they leave their sink drain closed and rinse the razor in the sink water which then turns it to a dirty brown color giving the user the impression that it's unclean.  I'd say that you're using water that's unclean anyway as it water sitting in your sink that you're repeatedly rinsing your razor isn't very pure anyway.  

Thats not relevant. While technically probably true, visual cues are what matters and are ingrained since childhood in most humans.

People's perceptions are their reality. Don't confuse it with facts

Staining my towels is unacceptable. Period.

Do you really rinse after every stroke though? I know I don't. I can actually do an entire pass without rinsing if I feel like it and if the lather is the right consistency. But alas, we are diverging way off topic here. In the interest of experimenting though, tomorrow I'll save all the water I use during shaving and see what it amounts to.

Do you really rinse after every stroke though? I know I don't. I can actually do an entire pass without rinsing if I feel like it and if the lather is the right consistency. But alas, we are diverging way off topic here. In the interest of experimenting though, tomorrow I'll save all the water I use during shaving and see what it amounts to.

Well it isn't a strict rule, but I do rinse very frequently. Also bear in mind I'm shaving my head not my face. A stroke would seem to cover more real estate on the top or back of my head than on a cheek.

Come to think of it, generally speaking, head shaves seem to involve quite a bit more surface area than face shaves which may explain some of the difference in the way you and I are considering the question...


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