A really bad experience from Van Yulay customer service

On the other hand, why the artisan/ vendors sell soft soaps to customers that live in areas with high temperatures during the summer period? What you say makes no sense, really.

And you can't be sure that the performance of a product that is artisan made and probably has no preservatives won't be affected by the heat. There is high possibility it will. For example, the scent can definitely change, like many characteristics of the soap itself. Many artisans can confirm that, there is no doubt on that.

And then we end up with topics just like this one, bashing a vendor for refusing to sell..."I guess their business is strong enough that they don;t care to sell to one lowly customer. This is horrible customer service...

You see where I am going with this...

This is an on-going problem,. Everyone wants someone else to take responsibility. An artisan should not be expected to monitor the weather patterns in every location a consumer orders from. That's ludicrous.

If you want to order soft soaps in the heat of summer, request, AND PAY FOR, expedited shipping. UPS or FedEx ground, where it will stay in a temperature controlled truck and arrive at your location in 24 hours or less. Require signature service so the package isnt left in the sun on the porch throughout the day.

It can be avoided, but it should not rest entirely on the artisan. Consumers DO have a responsiblity to be diligent in their purchases...

Ok, this is a vicious cycle and it's obvious you have a lot of time to spend. No offense. I totally disagree with almost every of your claims, but I really don't have the time to respond properly.

But, I'll say one last thing. When you buy a soap, you buy it also for its look. If look is not an important issue, so why this artisan makes the soap looks like pastry cream? Got it?

Please continue your arguments, Lawyers of both side, I will give my verdict later .

On a serious note, I would probably keep using the soap, because I don't think the performance will change, but that's just me.

If the OP feels like he should get a refund/a new product (which is completely understandable), it might be a good idea (not the only option) to ask the vendor first (about a refund/...) before filling, or threatening to file a complaint. This issue seems like another YMMV. Not everyone is extra considerate about artisans, and being extra considerate shouldn't be a requirement in my book. But treating an Artisan in a bit friendly way helps the community, I think; more often than not the Artisans go beyond their professional responsibility to attend our needs, or at least that's what I keep hearing.

After reading my post, I have added ZERO value to this discussion, but it is a hot Friday here in NJ, a little useless talk in a forum won't hurt anyone.

Ok, this is a vicious cycle and it's obvious you have a lot of time to spend. No offense. I totally disagree with almost every of your claims, but I really don't have the time to respond properly.

But, I'll say one last thing. When you buy a soap, you buy it also for its look. If look is not an important issue, so why this artisan makes the soap looks like pastry cream? Got it?

It's OK to disagree. It's not OK to lay out insults. Clearly you have equally the amount of time I do, lest you would not be responding equally as I am.

If you don't think consumers have any responsibility in making their purchases, that is your issue, and one with which I vehemently disagree. C'est la vie. Were I a vendor, having read this, I would refuse service to you based on that notion, for I would be responsible for myself, and proactive, by avoiding situations known to be conflicting.

And when I buy a soap, I buy for performance and scent because my intelligence informs me that the appearance of the surface of the soap will change dramatically within 3-4 uses. The appearance is exceptionally temporary, when compared to the longevity of the performance and the product itself.

That is, of course, unless it is a molded, carved soap that costs more money explicitly for the artistic qualities inherent in the appearance. That would very likely cost much more, and have shipping restrictions listed in place, along with disclaimers releasing liability from the vendor for shipments received damaged...the way they do with other fragile products, like glass bottles...

If the look is important enough, pay to ship the soap back, receive your refund, and wait until it cools off enough to ensure safe shipping. Seems pretty simple to me, but that's not what is being requested...

On a more selfish note, it's not my problem after all. At the end of the day, I won't have a soap that is under my quality standards. But I always enjoy reading arguments on both sides and participating in a dialogue with other fellow members. Shaving is fun, indeed.

Love this thread - the issue I see is OP ordered several soaps within days of each other, most arrived perfect and one arrived looking pretty messed up. What happened to that tub that didn't happen to the others? Who knows? My issue up here is I don't order liquids in the winter unless there is plenty of alcohol in it because it will freeze and glass will break. I think the vendor/artisan should have taken care of OP in the interest of good customer service - for the cost of one tub of soap you have a happy customer and you avoid a bunch of bad PR. Everybody is free to run their business however they like and maybe their margins are so skinny that even one goodwill tub of soap will put them out of business but in my experience with both vendors and artisans, in the rare event that I've had a problem, its been taken care of to my satisfaction right away. I'm a happy customer

I wouldn't take it as an insult if someone told me that I have plenty of time to spend to my favorite hobby. Don't be so sensitive, gentlemen. I've seen that sensitivity to some matters in many threads and I really don't know why. Some gentlemen should stop seeing insults everywhere or just stop commenting in discussion boards.

Let me add this:

I think that requesting a refund and offering to ship the "damaged" soap back to the artisan would be absolutely legitimate and a perfectly acceptable response from the OP in this situation. If the artisan then offered a refund with a friendly "keep the soap", I think that would be well above and beyond the call of duty, as it were.

I don't think the artisan should be threatened with opening a "case" because they did not automatically offer a free replacement soap, as the truth is...a free replacement soap could very likely end up looking identical, again, due to the heat, which leads to the same result.

I also dont think the artisan should be expected to simply offer full refunds and free soap for every situation that arises beyond their control. But I have reiterated that point enough times that the flies are starting to buzz around the tail...

I believe there is a reasonable solution to the problem, and all indications point to Van Yulay being an agreeable artisan that is willing to work with the customers. I don;t think it would cause any damage to approach the vendor and say, "May I send this soap back, unused, and request a refund?" See how they respond.

You always catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, in my experience...

I wouldn't take it as an insult if someone told me that I have plenty of time to spend to my favorite hobby. Don't be so sensitive, gentlemen. I've seen that sensitivity to some matters in many threads and I really don't know why. Some gentlemen should stop seeing insults everywhere or just stop commenting in discussion boards.

Fair enough...

I think a fair amount of the "problem" in this regard is the lack of intonation and vocal inflection. When reading a stranger's words, we all put into them our own pre-conceived inflections, and this can definitely alter the perception of the phrases written. What was not intended as an insult can come across as an insult due entirely to personal interpretation and assumed vocal intonations.

That is why I appreciate members that can have a discourse, recognize that there was no intended insult, and move forward with a clearer perception...

Which leads to respecting those members that can be accused of BEING insulting having the ability to rationally state, "I meant no insult", and moving forward with a clearer perception as well.

Oh to be at a table with a cup of coffee or a beer and having this conversation. It would be loaded with much more good-natured ribbing and a far better understanding of each other's perspectives...

In any event...I absolutely mean no insults in any of my statements, and I take none from this conversation. Cheers to good friends I've never met, and good hobbies that bring us together!

I guess my post above wasn't worth writing. Here I am, living in one of the hottest cities in the world, and the several soaps I've received the last couple weeks which includes 2 yesterday, have all arrived fine. Pure20 was sitting on my porch when I got home at 4:30, and probably arrived around 1:00, yet the soft soap looked like new.

I look at it like this. If the seller doesn't want to guarantee delivery of their product in new condition then I would not buy from that merchant because there are plenty of others that do. It's as easy as that. Also, they can claim the insurance most likely unless they didn't have it insured.

I guess my post above wasn't worth writing. Here I am, living in one of the hottest cities in the world, and the several soaps I've received the last couple weeks which includes 2 yesterday, have all arrived fine. Pure20 was sitting on my porch when I got home at 4:30, and probably arrived around 1:00, yet the soft soap looked like new.

I look at it like this. If the seller doesn't want to guarantee delivery of their product in new condition then I would not buy from that merchant because there are plenty of others that do. It's as easy as that. Also, they can claim the insurance most likely unless they didn't have it insured.

This is a very valid point, but it begs the question...would it be possible to know if a "standard" artisan croap had melted and re-congealed?

What I mean is, Van Yulay has a very unique method for filling the tubs with soap. Using a cake decorator, by appearances, provides a very unique surface upon first sight.

No other artisan that I know of does this. The problem is that these expected floral patterns are not present. This is why it is known to have suffered "heat damage".

I received a Stirling soap in the beginning of June where the soap inside was heavily weighted to one side of the tub, but was otherwise aesthetically fine. Is this a mishap during curing? A problem with heat in the mailbox? The result of off-balance pouring? Who knows?

I received a soap from Italian Barber in January with the same situation...weighted heavily on one side of the tub. What causes this? Who knows?

For the record, both perform spectacularly, so I am not and was not concerned...

The point is, if a "standard" soap partially melts, and re-congeals in a level position, one would never know, as it would look the same as it did when this happened during manufacturing. It is only known to have suffered from the heat because of the pattern...