World Shave Off Showdown 2nd Edition

The Karve F plate is more efficient/Aggressive than the 17/4 but the 17-4 is certainly smoother. The 17-4 is a step up IMO from the Paradigm 2 in efficiency but definitely has a softer face feel

From an efficiency standpoint, the Karve F should win.  The 17-4 is a much better razor tho.

Hi James 
have you used the Karve F plate before? I never have so I have no idea how they compare. I pretty sure you’ve used the 17 4 since it came out. I’m doing the Shave Off in about 30 minutes so all the input I get is given me an idea of what to expect out of this one. 

thank you!

The Karve F plate is more efficient/Aggressive than the 17/4 but the 17-4 is certainly smoother. The 17-4 is a step up IMO from the Paradigm 2 in efficiency but definitely has a softer face feel

I forgot you’ve shaved with both right. So you and James are on the same page as far as efficiency. So the 17 4 is smoother so this one sounds like another one of those close ones when it comes to the Scoring system.
Well I’m about to find out soon how these two pair up.


Thanks Mark

From an efficiency standpoint, the Karve F should win.  The 17-4 is a much better razor tho.

Hi James 
have you used the Karve F plate before? I never have so I have no idea how they compare. I pretty sure you’ve used the 17 4 since it came out. I’m doing the Shave Off in about 30 minutes so all the input I get is given me an idea of what to expect out of this one. 

thank you!

I bought a D and E plate. I used the E plate exactly once and sold it all. The Karve is a really good razor for $100 but it just wasn't as comfortable as I'm used to. I had a 17-4 for quite a while and enjoyed it quite as bit. It is on the lower side of efficiency for my tastes so, I sold it to fund another Wolfman.

Just going from memory on both and a one time use of an E plate....I'm betting the F will be a good bit more efficient. It can't compete with the 17-4 in any other category tho.

From an efficiency standpoint, the Karve F should win.  The 17-4 is a much better razor tho.

Hi James 
have you used the Karve F plate before? I never have so I have no idea how they compare. I pretty sure you’ve used the 17 4 since it came out. I’m doing the Shave Off in about 30 minutes so all the input I get is given me an idea of what to expect out of this one. 

thank you!

I bought a D and E plate.  I used the E plate exactly once and sold it all.  The Karve is a really good razor for $100 but it just wasn't as comfortable as I'm used to.  I had a 17-4 for quite a while and enjoyed it quite as bit.  It is on the lower side of efficiency for my tastes so,  I sold it to fund another Wolfman.

Just going from memory on both and a one time use of an E plate....I'm betting the F will be a good bit more efficient.  It can't compete with the 17-4 in any other category tho.

Finishes the Shave Off and I wish I had time to do the report but I’ve got to go to work cause I would love to respond to your comments and you’ll see why when I do the report. 

https://youtu.be/ixZjoc_jlmQ

I have used both the Karve F SB and OC (Timeless OC is much smoother and better IMHO) and for the price of less than $100 USD it has few peers - I wrote up a "Canuck Battle" where a Karve D lost a shave-off to the GameChanger 84 back on that "other" board.

The Karve (F plate) is a reasonably smooth and efficient shave even with the (higher gapped) G plate which is even more efficient (ie just the way I like it). But none of these high efficiency Karves (F or G) comes close to the smoothness of the 17-4 making the 17-4 just a better all around shave. As many of you know a similarly efficient razor can result in a BBS shave based on one's technique and experience - I bet in the right hands a vintage Tech can be as efficient as any modern Artisan (or at least close to it). However a razor's (subjective) smoothness is harder to "pull out" of the razor. For this reason the 17-4, whether slightly more efficient or slightly less efficient than a Karve F (or even G), results in a "better" shave. So there is no misunderstanding I'm throwing my "facial follicles" with the 17-4 winning but since it's an unobtainium (only 150 produced) I have no issue using the high gapped Karves once they are produced/delivered.

Now Frank those are some of my experiences summarized so you just have some fun and good luck with this write up !

I have used both the Karve F SB and OC (Timeless OC is much smoother and better IMHO) and for the price of less than $100 USD it has few peers - I wrote up a "Canuck Battle" where a Karve D lost a shave-off to the GameChanger 84 back on that "other" board.

The Karve (F plate) is a reasonably smooth and efficient shave even with the (higher gapped) G plate which is even more efficient (ie just the way I like it). But none of these high efficiency Karves (F or G) comes close to the smoothness of the 17-4 making the 17-4 just a better all around shave. As many of you know a similarly efficient razor can result in a BBS shave based on one's technique and experience - I bet in the right hands a vintage Tech can be as efficient as any modern Artisan (or at least close to it). However a razor's (subjective) smoothness is harder to "pull out" of the razor. For this reason the 17-4, whether slightly more efficient or slightly less efficient than a Karve F (or even G), results in a "better" shave. So there is no misunderstanding I'm throwing my "facial follicles" with the 17-4 winning but since it's an unobtainium (only 150 produced) I have no issue using the high gapped Karves once they are produced/delivered.

Now Frank those are some of my experiences summarized so you just have some fun and good luck with this write up !

Good werd...

But...this shave off is most efficient wins, no? It's not best shave...or is it?

Dang...I should pay more attention I suppose. Frankie did go to the score card on the first shave so...

If it's best shaver of similar efficiency....17-4 no question.

Yes Loot it is the most efficient shave-off but Frank has his scoring system in play. My comments are in regards to my experiences and for me efficiency and smoothness are integral for the “best shave”. With this shave-off I believe the 17-4 will “win” as it’s the better Shaving tool.

Shave Off Report: 

Karve Brass F plate  vs Paradigm 17 4 


So sorry guys that this one took to long to report on as I planned on doing it the other morning and I got behind and this was the first chance I've had to write up the report. I think I most of you all familiar with both of these razors especially the Karve as it's a more popular more reasonably priced razor than the very hard to get Paradigm 17 4. So both really completely different razors based on price, availability, metals along with fit and finish to name a few. As you can see from the photos the Karve is significantly longer than the 17 4 and for me the handle is a bit to long but that's just me and I'll add I had no issues shaving with it. The brass on this karve comes to me via forum member AJSharp and I I'd like to thank him for sending me a few razors to use in this Shave Off. While the Karve is a good value razor and the brass is a metal you either love or hate because like this one it will start to patina. The fit and finish on the 17 4 is much better and to me this razor is an Ikon in that it was the first modern razor that set the standard quickly and claimed fame as being known for its almost perfect balance of both efficiency and smoothness. It started a trend and even though at this time there are some razors that have surpassed it in what it does best it's still one hell of a shaving razor in my humble opinion. I wouldn't call it an unobtainium but a very hard to find razor would be how I'd describe it as I see them come up for sale now and then. I remember when it first came out I was a bit hesitant as initially I wasn't to crazy about the handle as far as looks goes but after getting mine I started to really like it. Karve didn't quite have the balance of the Paradigm and maybe it would have felt better if it had the shorter handle on it as I found out there are some handle length options that you can get. If I were ever to buy one I'd surely get the shorter handle. 

So let's get right to the Shave Off 

I decided to do my normal 2 pass shave going both WTG and ATG with no touch ups still using my SSSST technique. 

Gear used: 

Karve Brass F plate 
Paradigm 17 4 
New  Feather blades 
A&E So Cal Hipster shave soap and aftershave 
Paladin two band shave brush
Captain's Choice copper shaving bowl


1st Pass WTG - Whipped up my lather and I like the scent of this soap and aftershave now and then. When I wear it I get compliments from some of the younger girls I work with so I guess I'm a hipster! lol.  Also really like my Paladin two band Shaving brush.  It's one of my favorites for sure. So I started out with the 17 4  on my right side heading N to S and this is one darn smooth razor and the efficiency is quietly there. Blade feel on the first pass is there but minimalistic compared to any of the razors I've used in this Shave Off so far. I think it would be a good daily shaver for sure. I was on 2 days growth and the 17 4  had no problem going through it without any issues or drama. I really like the low profile head and the balance of this razor. No problems shaving under my nose and around my mouth with it.  Finished up the pass and grabbed the Karve to continue the N to S downward pass on my neck. This is where my nasty cowlick is and the Karve went through it better than any razor I've shaved with so far on this area in this Shave Off up till now. So a good pass from the Karve.  Just to be clear blade feel on the 1st pass was a little more prominent with the Karve than the Paradigm for sure and the audio feedback was also louder. The pass went nicely as I could really feel the efficiency of the razor taking down my beard growth. Finished the pass and went right to the the left side of my face and started my N to S pass which I started right under my sideburn. This was a good pass for the Karve as it was taking down a nice amount of hair on my more predictable left side. It did a good job on my chin so all and all a good pass out of the Karve. On to my neck with the Paradigm and when you pick it up after using the Karve it feels better balanced in hand in comparison. I kept saying the same thing to myself pretty much all through the Shave Off when using the Paradigm. " Smooth & Efficient " so I got an excellent pass from the 17 4 on this pass. I finished up the WTG pass so I rinsed my face and didn't do a face feel and went right to the ATG Pass. 

2nd Pass ATG - I relathered up and I have to say this is a nice base from A&E and it worked out fine for this 2 pass Shave Off.   Anyway gave my skin a good stretch at the base of my neck on my right side with the Karve and since it did a good job on the 1st pass although there was some stubble left from the WTG pass I could feel it was taking down the remaining hairs nicely. A quick pass from the Karve and grabbed the Paradigm to continue my S to N pass. I noticed right away that the blade feel and the audible feedback were even more subdued than on the first pass and almost non existent as this razor is so smooth but it was still silently and efficiently taking down my stubble. No tugging or chatter and a really nice pass from the Paradigm. Kept it in hand and headed over to my left side and once again to begin my S to N pass I gave my skin a good stretch and headed northbound and I have to say it did a good job on the ATG pass on my neck. So another very good pass from the 17 4. For the last ATG pass the Karve had the honors on the left side of my face and this was a very nice pass for the Karve although clearly not as smooth as the 17 4 this razor is in no way harsh at all and I finished up the last ATG pass and the Shave Off.  No no weepers, nicks or irritation from these two razors. Rinsed the soap off and applied a splash of Thayers Lemon and let it dry while I cleaned up my gear. I then had a good healthy splash of the aftershave for an overall nice shave experience. 


Summary:

Both razors were very close as far as beard reduction goes and I was actually surprised as some mentioned the Karve would be much more efficient but honestly feeling my face there were areas that were BBS and some that were DFS and pretty much both razors were neck and neck even as my beard grew out over the next 24 hrs. During the Shave Off the Karve felt like it was a little more efficient and maybe because it exhibited more blade feel than the 17 4 so  I'm kind of glad I got behind and let the beard grow out as I got a much better read on how these two performed. Honestly if I were only basing this on purely on efficiency I'd have to call this one a tie and do it over but I'm going to give the Karve a 1/2 point more than the 17 4 and the reason I'm giving it the extra 1/2 point is the Karve was assigned to the most difficult part of my entire face and that's the right side of my neck and the face that both sides were pretty much the same that's why I'm giving it to the Karve.  So I've got to go to the Scoring System to get a winner. 


Scoring System: 

Karve

Efficiency - 42 points 
Smoothness - 15 points 
Maneuverability - 3 points 
Balance - 3 1/2 points 
Glide - 3 1/2 points 

Total = 67 points 


Paradigm 17 4 

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Efficiency - 41 1/2 points [/font]
Smoothness - 16 1/2 points 
Maneuverability - 4  points 
Balance - 4 points 
Glide - 4 points 

Total = 69 points 


So the 17 4  takes this one by 2 points and is the winner! It will be moving on to the next round while the Karve will be eliminated from this category but will show up in the " Very Efficient " Category with the G plate and lets see if it does any better. The end results of this Shave Off was that both sides had areas of my face and neck that were BBS and some were DFS but where the Karve lost points was in other areas where the Paradigm just plain out shaved it. I'll put put this one in the index which is on page 2. 

Once again sorry for the long delay in writing up the report. I'll be doing another Shave Off on Friday morning and I'm do my best to get the results up much faster.  Also tomorrow I'll post up the next two razor that will meet up in the Friday Shave Off. 



Great Shaves my friends! 
DB