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#21

Merchant
MD Eastern Shore
Thanks! That's good news.
Brad
#22

Member
New Jersey
I was reading on a Facebook group that people are saying 'Old shefield steel - great', new south African steel - poor. They have no data other than the grudge that someone bought the wade and butcher name.

I am wondering, does Steel have DNA, ethnicity too?
Sourav - That's my name. It actually means fragrance!!  Goes well with this forum!
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#23

That Bald Guy with the Big Beard
Bishop, CA
(11-27-2016, 04:56 AM)iamsms Wrote: I was reading on a Facebook group that people are saying 'Old shefield steel - great', new south African steel - poor. They have no data other than the grudge that someone bought the wade and butcher name.

I am wondering, does Steel have DNA, ethnicity too?

I am still relatively new to wet shaving, but one thing I have noticed is that some people just can't resist the drama. I try really hard not to have an opinion until I've had an opportunity to try it for myself...
-Chris~Head Shaver~
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#24

Member
New Jersey
Not only the drama, people talking with such authority with utter stupidity baffles me. In the olden days, when techniques like say xrd, xps, rbs, eds ( fairly straightforward techniques of figuring out material composition, bonding, etc etc) weren't available, they could perform other tests to judge the steel quality, but no real way to figure out compositions and such. Just like 150 years ago there was only 'human blood', not so many varieties. So one place producing steel would be different than others. And they had no concretely objective way to differentiate. Not anymore. Steel from different places doesn't have any mojo just for being from that place. Anyone, anywhere in the world can replicate that steel with correct tools.

There is no secret recipe, how hard is that to understand. And how hard it is to not create drama.
Sourav - That's my name. It actually means fragrance!!  Goes well with this forum!
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#25

Member
TN
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2016, 06:56 PM by MileMarker60.)
It's a interesting topic.
I'm on the side of "not a big fan"
From a personal side... to me W&B had/has a historic name in straight razors.
While I don't think the new version will be lesser quality.. it will never be able to live up the name's history.
What are we going to see next.. a rebirth of Greaves and Sons.

You can see some of the potential problems with the new Puma razor.
The recently branded Puma is nothing close to the vintage Puma razors.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure they will make a nice razor and I'm sure they will sale a good number.
I just think it would have been better to use their own name/brand instead of buying the W&B name.
#26

That Bald Guy with the Big Beard
Bishop, CA
(11-29-2016, 06:51 PM)MileMarker60 Wrote: It's a interesting topic.
I'm on the side of "not a big fan"
From a personal side... to me W&B had/has a historic name in straight razors.
While I don't think the new version will be lesser quality.. it will never be able to live up the name's history.
What are we going to see next.. a rebirth of Greaves and Sons.

You can see some of the potential  problems with the new Puma razor.
The recently branded Puma is nothing close to the vintage Puma razors.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure they will make a nice razor and I'm sure they will sale a good number.
I just think it would have been better to use their own name/brand instead of buying the W&B name.

The idea behind purchasing the name brand of Wade & Butcher was to continue the history. History is only history because it is in the past. If the new owner provides a quality product with quality steel at a fair market price, then he is, in effect, paving the way for future purchasers to look at this time with the same reverence as the historical past of the name.

Steel is not the same today as it was 100 years ago. Quality steel can be bought, hardened, and tempered to very exact standards no matter where in the world it is mined and forged. The aura of "Sheffield Steel" is gone, not because the quality is incomparable, but because the location is inconsequential...

Best to reserve judgement until they actually produce a new razor, and there is an actual chance to see exactly and actually what they intend to bring to the market. Negative judgements before the first razor is released is not oinly unfair, but is based entirely upon one's own perception, not a realistic view of the possibilities...
-Chris~Head Shaver~
#27

Member
TN
(11-29-2016, 08:14 PM)BadDad Wrote: The idea behind purchasing the name brand of Wade & Butcher was to continue the history. History is only history because it is in the past. If the new owner provides a quality product with quality steel at a fair market price, then he is, in effect, paving the way for future purchasers to look at this time with the same reverence as the historical past of the name.

Steel is not the same today as it was 100 years ago. Quality steel can be bought, hardened, and tempered to very exact standards no matter where in the world it is mined and forged. The aura of "Sheffield Steel" is gone, not because the quality is incomparable, but because the location is inconsequential...

Best to reserve judgement until they actually produce a new razor, and there is an actual chance to see exactly and actually what they intend to bring to the market. Negative judgements before the first razor is released is not oinly unfair, but is based entirely upon one's own perception, not a realistic view of the possibilities...


I have no issue with the razor itself or the guys making them, I'm sure it will be nice.

But the idea that you can "re-start" history.. we will agree to disagree on that one.
#28

That Bald Guy with the Big Beard
Bishop, CA
I never said anything about restarting history, I said it was to continue history. The name Wade & Butcher represents a level of quality and detail. If the new owners of that brand can provide the same level of quality and attention to details as the original manufacturers did, than the brand of Wade & Butcher will continue to represent that level of quality and craftsmanship.

If they fail to meet that mark, than they do not deserve to be successful with the brand.

My only point of contention is where people have a problem with it, because they assume, and therefor expect, low quality based on nothing more than their own preconceived ideas. There is no legitimate reason to assume that the quality of the new production razors will be any lower than the quality of W&B production in the past.

Materials and processes are VASTLY improved over what W&B had in the past. Assuming that quality will be lower, even though techniques, materials, and equipment is greatly improved, is kind of silly. Better tools, better knowledge, better materials, and better science very rarely come together to make a lower quality product.

It defies logic, and I always have a problem with illogical complaints...
-Chris~Head Shaver~
#29

Member
TN
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2016, 07:16 PM by MileMarker60.)
(11-30-2016, 06:02 PM)BadDad Wrote: I never said anything about restarting history, I said it was to continue history. The name Wade & Butcher represents a level of quality and detail. If the new owners of that brand can provide the same level of quality and attention to details as the original manufacturers did, than the brand of Wade & Butcher will continue to represent that level of quality and craftsmanship........

Materials and processes are VASTLY improved over what W&B had in the past. Assuming that quality will be lower, even though techniques, materials, and equipment is greatly improved, is kind of silly. Better tools, better knowledge, better materials, and better science very rarely come together to make a lower quality product.

You are correct you didn't say "re-start" you said continue.
IMHO.. you can't continue history of a company that's been dead for 100 years
It would be like Chevrolet (or Ford, etc..) stopping production .
100 years later 10 guys decide to restart the brand and put out 1000 really nice cars in 2-3 different models. Regardless of how nice the 2-3 models are, it's not going live up to the standards of the years of classic cars produced and admired.

While the steel and the HT's process are without a doubt more consistent. The razor itself still comes down to a person grinding it.
Dovo, T.I.,etc.. they all use a 100 year old design, double wheel wet grinder. The rest of the hobby/custom makers use a 2x72 (or similar) belt grinder.

Like I've said.. I'm sure they can make a quality razor. I doubt they would build the hype if they didn't plan to put out something nice.
I just question the use of the Wade & Butcher branding.

I will also admit that I'm completely aware that not everyone is going to be a sentimental about the names as I'm
#30

That Bald Guy with the Big Beard
Bishop, CA
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2016, 09:00 PM by BadDad.)
Actually, Dodge did exactly that. They ceased production on the Charger, Challenger, and Daytona in the early 1970s and reintroduced them all around 2003. They ceased production on the 426 CID Hemi engine in about 1970, and re-introduced it in 2003, in a much smaller size, but much higher output capacity.

Not 100 years later, but definitely a long enough time frame for nostalgia to be extremely high(1969 Charger R/T is one of the highest valued classics on the current market) and production methods to have dramatically and drastically change.

Sure, there were hiccups with the reintroductions, especially with die-hard fans that HATED the first iteration of the updated Charger because the engine was small and it was a 4-door. But as people actually took the time to drive the cars, and push the smaller engines to their new, more efficient power capacities, they were very well received within the enthusiast community, even being accepted by die-hard MOPAR fans from the 60's.

The point being that even die-hard classic MOPAR fans could not and cannot deny that the new versions of these classic muscle cars outperform their historical counterparts. Sure...there are a stubborn few that refuse to like the new cars. There will always be those folks. But they don;t like them because of personal opinions, not because the cars are of lesser quality or value.

The same is very possible with the new iterations of Wade & Butcher razors. Due particularly to the fact that steel and manufacturing processes are more accurate, and better understood today than they were when W&B ceased production in 1919(roughly).

Again...the point is not to say that new W&B razors WILL be better, but that the potential definitely exists for them to POSSIBLY be better than they ever were, just as the new factory Dodge Charger Hemi R/T will SMOKE a factory 1969 Dodge Charger Hemi R/T.

Improvements in technology invariably leads to improvement in quality, as long as the manufacturer does not intentionally cheapen their product to appeal to a mass market with a lower price tag. Of course that is always a possibility, as well but...we won;t know until a new razor is produced...
-Chris~Head Shaver~


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