Tallow vs. Vegan-Do you care (anymore)?

Preface: not advocating for anybody to undertake my journey, simply airing issues have wrestled with lately (particularly after rereading classic Russian novels this past fall where social decline was accompanied by misanthropy).

Do I care - HELL yes! Care now more than ever but not in the way the author intended.

As have become more involved with canine rescue, have become aware of the general abuse to animals tolerated throughout life - let's be very frank, the abuse I have ACTIVELY CHOSEN to participate in through purchasing patterns. Consequently have modified food, transportation, furnature, clothing and other consumer choices to minimize (even eliminating in a few instances) contributing to the problem. However, shaving is an area that has remained unmitigated yet is rife for opportunity to reduce this footprint: from the cruelty to animals sourcing hair for brush knots - and let us face it, China is a dark misanthropic plague set loose upon the world by the forces of greed - to soaps where even the most clever and innovative minds have yet to surpass their animal offerings with vegan alternatives. The problem is I am selfish and willing to sacrifice animals to forego the facial skin irritation their products mitigate and quite ashamed of the fact.

So HELL YES justice screams to care but not sure willing to make the sacrifices required to make the world a better place. Like all "Americans", my hope is that technological innovation will make character choices unnecessary but that is a weak response in the face of knowledge. Unfortunately for the conscience, once one knows, one can never go back to the comfort of willful ignorance.

Preface: not advocating for anybody to undertake my journey, simply airing issues have wrestled with lately (particularly after rereading classic Russian novels this past fall where social decline was accompanied by misanthropy).

Do I care - HELL yes! Care now more than ever but not in the way the author intended.

As have become more involved with canine rescue, have become aware of the general abuse to animals tolerated throughout life - let's be very frank, the abuse I have ACTIVELY CHOSEN to participate in through purchasing patterns. Consequently have modified food, transportation, furnature, clothing and other consumer choices to minimize (even eliminating in a few instances) contributing to the problem. However, shaving is an area that has remained unmitigated yet is rife for opportunity to reduce this footprint: from the cruelty to animals sourcing hair for brush knots - and let us face it, China is a dark misanthropic plague set loose upon the world by the forces of greed - to soaps where even the most clever and innovative minds have yet to surpass their animal offerings with vegan alternatives. The problem is I am selfish and willing to sacrifice animals to forego the facial skin irritation their products mitigate and quite ashamed of the fact.

So HELL YES justice screams to care but not sure willing to make the sacrifices required to make the world a better place. Like all "Americans", my hope is that technological innovation will make character choices unnecessary but that is a weak response in the face of knowledge. Unfortunately for the conscience, once one knows, one can never go back to the comfort of willful ignorance.

Have you gone vegan? Using rendered beef fat isn’t necessary cruel if the animal is being used in a multitude of ways and if they are raised humanely.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Damn near, not quite. Again, this a personal decision and not advocating for others. Simply airing the issues struggling to resolve on my end.

When I first started, I had a preference for tallow, believing that a vegan soap would lack the slickness. I got hold of my first vegan soap and now I know better. Now I only care about the scent and performance of the soap.

How about something in the middle: I make two formulas without tallow, but they contain whey protein/milk and/or lanolin. I'm always experimenting with new formulas; I'm discovering that tallow gets in my way as I try to make my formulas better.

I'm discovering that tallow gets in my way as I try to make my formulas better.

Would not have thought that...but then again have no soap making skills.  Curious to read your experience and thoughts on this if so predisposed and not boring everybody to death.

These days I've been very satisfied with a handful of vegan soaps:

• Grooming Dept Nai: Aion
  
• Grooming Dept Janus Vegan: Barbershop and Valencia
  
• PannaCrema Nuavia Blu (OLD jar)
  
• Saponificio Varesino Beta 4.3: Felce Aromatica and Opuntia
  

These soaps are at or near the mountaintop, because of which tallow or vegan is no longer a litmus test for me.  Tallow now competes with other factors in my buying decisions - things like the artisan's reputation and my experience with him/her, user feedback, off the shelf availability, the inclusion or exclusion of key ingredients (e.g., lanolin), and even cover art.

So HELL YES justice screams to care but not sure willing to make the sacrifices required to make the world a better place.  Like all "Americans", my hope is that technological innovation will make character choices unnecessary but that is a weak response in the face of knowledge.  Unfortunately for the conscience, once one knows, one can never go back to the comfort of willful ignorance.

Dan: I read this twice and although I sense your commitment and concern I sure don't understand your direction. Guessing it would take you a few pages to share the iceberg of which you just shared the tip.how about starting a thread to better discuss what your thinking. I guessing there are others that would enjoy that too. Looking forward to your thread.

Dan: I read this twice and although I sense your commitment and concern I sure don't understand your direction.

Long and short is the thread is entitled: Tallow vs. Vegan-Do you care (anymore)?.  My response simply states that I do, not for the reasons presumably behind the thread - performance - but for personal ethical choice reasons.  Raising the subject was likely a bridge too far and bordering on advocacy; surely expounding only aggravates the situation.  Suffice to state am surprised and happy to learn expert soap makers are moving away from tallow if only because of limitations to further development.

I have found that with the right formulation, either base can produce a superb soap.

I agree with the previous poster that I'd prefer something that did not involve harming an animal.  But I also note that tallow is essentially a byproduct of meat production (same could be said about leather).  It's a use of something that may otherwise be considered waste.  So I don't feel terrible about having tallow-based soaps.

One could certainly argue that the sale of such a byproducts (like leather or tallow) is effectively subsidizing the meat industry by monetizing a waste product, and therefore contributing to the slaughter of livestock...........but I won't go there.  I'm also a meat eater, so I should stop rambling now.