Tallow + Steel

Got my Kyoto set. I'm a bit disappointed. From the tub it's a weak scent (!) with a delicate yuzu and some resinous-marine notes. I hope to get more once lathered.

EDIT: The strenght is less strong than Himalaya to my nose.

Did you lather? What about the aftershave?

I commented about this to a friend on the forum privately but since it just came up here I would actually echo struttura's comment. I'd call both Kyoto and Sicily moderate strength scents in terms of both the soap and aftershave. I've become more accustomed to scents that are on the stronger end of the spectrum from a competitor's products that I like quite a bit, which I think is factoring in for me. I certainly would not call them too weak but I would appreciate the scents being a few notches stronger. I think if the aftershave was able to last a while longer at or close to it's applied strength it would probably be a good enhancement to an already great product. I think I read somewhere that this is less of a priority in the product formulation.

I will say that this can be a tough balance. There is an aftershave maker that is well liked on the forums that I need to either cut with witch hazel very significantly (like 1:15) or use SUPER sparingly because it is just way way too strong for me.

I'd like to know the science. Are water based splashes just not designed to stay around compared to alcohol bases?

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Count me curious as well. I think there is more to it than just the base.

Hot off the press... The in-depth review of Sicily by Tallow + Steel!

I'd like to know the science. Are water based splashes just not designed to stay around compared to alcohol bases?

Alcohol is more volatile than water, but in the grand scheme of things neither has a measurable effect one way or the other. It's all in the scent components; are they EO, FO or does it contain synthetics, etc. Using all-natural EOs, the Tallow + Steel offerings don't have the best longevity, which is also of least concern when developing their scents. If they used synthetics, then they'd last longer - but that's not their thing.

I'd like to know the science. Are water based splashes just not designed to stay around compared to alcohol bases?

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Count me curious as well. I think there is more to it than just the base.

I’ll touch on a few things.

It has a lot to do with the scents themselves. These scents are more citrus/floral, so will naturally be lighter than say something like Boreal or Maya.

Essential oils often aren’t as strong as fragrance oils and other synthetics but it is dependant on what oils exactly. This is really amplified in soap. In previous collab’s we’ve done, we added the same amount of scent in our V1 soap base for the collab as we did our core line of products, and the soap came out so unbelievably strong that I thought I had made a mistake. It was just that the scent had a large number of synthetics that seemed to be so much stronger, especially in soap. After making soap with that scent, our entire lab smelled like this scent for weeks after, even after making other products. There are of course exceptions to the rule, like the Jasmine Absolute we use in Himalaya. If I even open the bottle (and it’s diluted!) the entire lab gets taken over by the smell. I’m no expert on synthetics, but this has been my experience so far with the few collabs we’ve done.

As for the aftershave, it’s always a fine balance for us. We don’t want the aftershave to be a cologne. Many of our aftershaves I can pick up occasionally for a few hours after, and to me that is plenty. With Kyoto, the other day it was 3 hours later and I could still lightly smell it. I’m not for certain, but I would think a fragrance in alcohol may have better staying power than a fragrance emulsified in a water-based moisturizer. The #1 intent of our aftershaves is to be awesome for your skin, and with there being no “alcohol burn,” essential oil burn becomes more noticeable. We are pretty much at the limit of how much scent we can add into the moisturizer without the risk of causing skin irritation.

When I said longevity isn’t a main focus, that doesn’t mean strength. We scent all of our products as high as we pretty much can, but longevity - you get what you get. I would say all of our products (scent dependant) are about 5-8 / 10 in strength.

Long story short: our new scents are lighter (higher citrus and floral, synthetics are often stronger and have more staying power and may project bettering in soap, and alcohol splashes may allow more fragrance/have better longevity

Well said, Ryan. There's also the matter of fixatives to bolster longevity. I'm all for AS as colognes.

Jasmine, yeah that stuff is tenacious!

My Kyoto set ordered right after it was released is still MIA. I’m in NYC. Anyone else having this problem? Or...should I just assume I’ll never get it...and see if I can arrange a refund. Think I’m done with any cross border ordering for anything from Canada after this experience.

My Kyoto set ordered right after it was released is still MIA. I’m in NYC. Anyone else having this problem? Or...should I just assume I’ll never get it...and see if I can arrange a refund.

What day did it ship? It's been two weeks or am I off? I'd give it through next week. I often order products from other countries and have learned that it will show up eventually; or atleast in my experience. I've ordered from this one place multiple times - quickest was 2 weeks and longest was 5 weeks.