#841
How anyone could label the finish as "incredible" is beyond me...even if you never heard Eric make the "2 step mirror finish" claim. Machine marks make mirror finishes impossible. Machine marks on visible surfaces are not a good thing, to me.

Eric deserves credit for actually making the Janus. I agree there. Its an impressive feat, no doubt. The execution of fit and finish is seriously lacking in the LE tho.

Performance is another issue on the LE. It's just not in the top tier, a mediocre shaver at best.

The prototype would be worth a try but I seiously doubt is would be as good as a 2020 Sailor, the biggest of the bunch.

Labeling the LE a flop is a bit harsh, but I could easily make that argument myself...and yes, I did have an LE so I guess I am permitted to speak on it.

I'm glad some of you guys like them and they found good homes tho. Short of a limited release and the novelty of a modern Toggle, it has little going for it. It looks good, until you really look.

I just don't understand the adulation for the Eric/Janus, at all...and that's OK, reasonable minds can disagree.

muzichead, AQU, Sledge and 3 others like this post
#842

Member
Illinois
I don't believe you have to actually try a razor to be able to criticize it, you need only follow these forums close enough and just read what the people that bought it and what they had to say about it!! In the case of the Janus, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that it just completely missed the mark that was already set for it by what those people had to say. I think the fact that you just don't see the razor in SOTD pics here and on other forums speaks volumes that those that have them just don't use them. Yes, there were some that enjoy the razor but off the top of my head it's just a few people that speak positive of it all the time. As I've said in the past, its just a shame all together that the release was so hyped and then when it finally was released and the negative reviews started coming in, followed by razors being returned, this is why some have called it a flop!! It would be nice to see Eric release either the prototype or something very close but I don't think any info of what is coming should be released prior to it being finished...

LOOT and stuartganis74 like this post
#843
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2021, 08:19 PM by Sledge.)
(10-10-2021, 02:46 PM)LOOT Wrote: How anyone could label the finish as "incredible" is beyond me...even if you never heard Eric make the "2 step mirror finish" claim.  Machine marks make mirror finishes impossible. Machine  marks on visible surfaces are not a good thing, to me.

Eric deserves credit for actually making the Janus. I agree there. Its an impressive feat, no doubt. The execution of fit and finish is seriously lacking in the LE tho.

Performance is another issue on the LE. It's just not in the top tier, a mediocre shaver at best.

The prototype would be worth a try but I seiously doubt is would be as good as a 2020 Sailor, the biggest of the bunch.

Labeling the LE a flop is a bit harsh, but I could easily make that argument myself...and yes, I did have an LE so I guess I am permitted to speak on it.

I'm glad some of you guys like them and they found good homes tho.  Short of a limited release and the novelty of a modern Toggle, it has little going for it. It looks good, until you really look.

I just don't understand the adulation for the Eric/Janus, at all...and that's OK, reasonable minds can disagree.
I agree on all counts and LOOT knows of what he speaks from first hand experience.  Adulation is not the word I would choose but admiration fits the bill. 

You might be surprised to hear but I learned that Eric was not an experienced wet shaver when he decided to take on the project.  That is probably why he didn't immediately realize the edits to the design resulted in aggression and blade feel in the LE.

I agree with muzichead except that if there will not be a V2 we should be told so we can move on without endless speculation.  Also would not hurt to hear how the V2 will be improved if it is to be made.  

Headed to the Max Trainer for a workout.  When I return will shower and shave off half a 5 day beard with the prototype, other half with the LE, and post a pic with my thoughts.  Keeping it simple: New GSB and shave oil.  Unless the evil/good razor fairy sneaked into my safe and messed with either one I think the outcome is predictable.

Eric and I are scheduled to speak today at 4 and I will let y'all know what he says re. V2, etc.

AQU, muzichead and Scaramouche like this post
#844

Member
Midwest
I don't own one and haven't shaved with one, but from the technical engineering aspects of semi-duplicating this razor it's an awesome accomplishment - the toggle was a Rube Goldberg original, hence no longer with us. Awesome is the right word in this case. From the aspect of using it as a shaving tool, opinions obviously differ but the majority seem to have concluded, generously, there are better options. I think Gillette concluded the same thing 60 years ago. But if Eric manages to reconstruct this Jurassic Park dinosaur into a workable and usable new edition, it will be an equally awesome accomplishment to have created something better than the original as far as a shaving implement, and kudos to him for even the attempt.

Dragonsbeard, AQU, Gopneg and 1 others like this post
Something wild is loose
#845

Member
Illinois
(10-10-2021, 08:18 PM)Sledge Wrote: I agree on all counts and LOOT knows of what he speaks from first hand experience.  Adulation is not the word I would choose but admiration fits the bill.

ad·u·la·tion
/ˌajəˈlāSH(ə)n/

noun
obsequious flattery; excessive admiration or praise.

stuartganis74, Sledge, LOOT and 1 others like this post
#846

Member
Midwest
Just sayin....

admiration
[ˌadməˈrāSH(ə)n]

NOUN
(the admiration of)
something regarded as impressive or worthy of respect

"Excessive" as a qualifier has meaning....

LOOT and Sledge like this post
Something wild is loose
#847
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2021, 09:52 PM by Sledge.)
(10-10-2021, 09:11 PM)Scaramouche Wrote: Just sayin....

admiration
[ˌadməˈrāSH(ə)n]

NOUN
(the admiration of)
something regarded as impressive or worthy of respect

"Excessive" as a qualifier has meaning....
Excessive is subjective but even I admit you got me on that one muzichead. Smile

LOOT, muzichead and Scaramouche like this post
#848
(10-10-2021, 08:18 PM)Sledge Wrote:
(10-10-2021, 02:46 PM)LOOT Wrote: How anyone could label the finish as "incredible" is beyond me...even if you never heard Eric make the "2 step mirror finish" claim.  Machine marks make mirror finishes impossible. Machine  marks on visible surfaces are not a good thing, to me.

Eric deserves credit for actually making the Janus. I agree there. Its an impressive feat, no doubt. The execution of fit and finish is seriously lacking in the LE tho.

Performance is another issue on the LE. It's just not in the top tier, a mediocre shaver at best.

The prototype would be worth a try but I seiously doubt is would be as good as a 2020 Sailor, the biggest of the bunch.

Labeling the LE a flop is a bit harsh, but I could easily make that argument myself...and yes, I did have an LE so I guess I am permitted to speak on it.

I'm glad some of you guys like them and they found good homes tho.  Short of a limited release and the novelty of a modern Toggle, it has little going for it. It looks good, until you really look.

I just don't understand the adulation for the Eric/Janus, at all...and that's OK, reasonable minds can disagree.
I agree on all counts and LOOT knows of what he speaks from first hand experience.  Adulation is not the word I would choose but admiration fits the bill. 

You might be surprised to hear but I learned that Eric was not an experienced wet shaver when he decided to take on the project.  That is probably why he didn't immediately realize the edits to the design resulted in aggression and blade feel in the LE.

I agree with muzichead except that if there will not be a V2 we should be told so we can move on without endless speculation.  Also would not hurt to hear how the V2 will be improved if it is to be made.  

Headed to the Max Trainer for a workout.  When I return will shower and shave off half a 5 day beard with the prototype, other half with the LE, and post a pic with my thoughts.  Keeping it simple: New GSB and shave oil.  Unless the evil/good razor fairy sneaked into my safe and messed with either one I think the outcome is predictable.

Eric and I are scheduled to speak today at 4 and I will let y'all know what he says re. V2, etc.

I dont want to nitpick words, Mr Sledge. My choice of words are simply that, mine. It was not used to detract from your opinion. If fact, quite the opposite. You are obviously a fan, every razor designer should have a bunch just like you. I respect your enthusiasm. Just as I respect the flop philosophy. Like all things, i think the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

As to Eric being inexperienced, that isn't news to me. I knew the first time he released a video of him using the razor, he was unfamiliar, at best. Hell, I am sure I pointed it out in this thread.

What did you find out on the future?

TheHunter, Scaramouche, cornbread and 1 others like this post
#849
You're good LOOT, no offense taken on the wording.  Of course the prototype beat the pants off the LE in my half faced shave-off.  By a country mile. 

The thing is a monster, 122 grams vs. 96 for the LE.  I like the size and heft though.

Waiting on Eric's call.
[Image: bRpYQxw.jpg][Image: LqTOnn2.jpg][Image: a13k9LB.jpg][Image: l0hYKkU.jpg]

Scaramouche, AQU, LOOT and 5 others like this post
#850
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2021, 12:52 AM by Sledge.)
Wow what a great phone call, we spoke for an hour.  Far from giving up, Eric is full steam ahead.  He readily admits to making a key mistake at the end:  A late tester commented that on 9 the prototype was still mild and he wished there were more settings up to 12.  Eric's solution was to widen the range of adjustment to give more efficiency at the highest settings.  The unexpected result as we know was too much aggression across all settings except the lowest.

Eric's biggest problem with production has been the machine shops.  They are all swamped with regular work.  They make the most money by machining simple parts in large numbers, ordered by large companies.  The shops he has worked with have been so busy with other work that they regularly delayed his project.  Most shops he has spoken to have said "sure we can do that" but when they see the complexity of the parts and the small numbers, they balk at taking on the work, or they don't have the capability in the first place.  

So Eric is changing his strategy from working with a machine shop as a supplier to partnering with a machine shop that has the capability, expertise, and equipment, plus the marketing and customer support capabilities that are required.  There are companies that already make razors and have their own shops and marketing divisions and he is seeking that type of partner who will have a vested interest.  Finding them is the key to his continued effort.  By the way he has had numerous offers from overseas companies (mostly China) to machine his parts but he does not want that sort of long distance relationship.  He personally supervised machine setup for first runs of parts with his local machine shops and realizes his partner company may not be local, but does not want to go overseas with it.

V2: This part really knocked my socks off.  Eric's new design for V2 has 10 machined parts, down from 19.  I don't see how he managed to do that but I am no engineer.  The LE has over 30 parts if you include springs and tiny pins.  Blade exposure will be dialed back across the range of settings.  The V2 profile will stay the same as the LE but the knurling will be different and the adjustment dial detent will be improved.  The finish will be done using electropolish technique vs. mechanical polishing and will result in a very bright (chrome like he said) finish that will cost less to achieve and be more uniform.  By the way he praised James Dufour for his incredible skill mirror polishing the Wolfman razors.  Eric said if he ever needed a hip joint replaced he would ask James to polish it for him. Smile  

Eric told me that his main goal is to make the machine shop partnership happen so he can get V2 out there.  And although I can't share specifically how he will do it he wants to make sure every LE owner (even the folks who sent theirs back) is a happy camper on the release of the V2 to make up for shortcomings of the LE.  He wants all his customers to be happy in the end.  All depends on him finding a suitable partner to have V2 produced. 

I was worried that Eric would not continue.  Unfortunately the Janus Prototype will not be produced again but V2 most likely will be and it could be a winner.  Eric learned from his mistakes and now knows the economics of machine shops and the finer points of what we are all looking for in a razor.  End cost will be determined by cost to manufacture but Eric stated he will not cut corners.

He admits he is not good at customer support but he takes calls from LE owners.  Texts are a good way to get in touch but he has a regular day job and spends most time on the weekends with his family.  LE owners have his number and it is in the thread somewhere.  He said anyone can call and talk to him about the project though.

A note about the prototype I shaved with today: I was surprised to hear that it is not a bare steel finish but is actually platinum PVD.  (Physical Vapor Deposition.)  Electrons bombard platinum and the part in a vacuum chamber.  Hot plasma reacts with chlorine gas and platinum atoms creating a molecular vapor which is deposited on the steel surface.  It is not just plated but metallurgically bonded, is extremely hard, and resistant to corrosion.  How cool is that?

Looks like the story of the Janus New Toggle has more chapters to be written.

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