I recently Sold two NOS Filarmonica Razors here on the BST, to a member that I have seen often, and who I believe I’ve dealt with in the past. He just messaged me this evening by PM and said he doesn’t think the Razors are NOS because there is writing on the back of one of the boxes and the box looks aged. I replied and said that as I had stated in the listing that I had purchased the Razors as NOS, and was selling them as such. He said they weren’t “New” because of the writing on the back of one of the boxes as well as some discoloration. I sent him Wickipedia’s Definition of what NOS was, which was accurate with my listing. He said that he wanted a refund, and I replied that my listing was correct and accurate, and that my pictures were detailed, and that if he wanted more pics or information that the listing said to ask for it. I went on to say that if he had a change of heart that he could sell them, but that I wouldn’t accept a return. This member responded with a false claim to PayPal saying that my items were damaged and not as described. I responded to the Claim with photos of the listing as well as photos of all of our PM’s along with Wickipedia’s Definition of what NOS is. I haven’t heard back yet from PayPal, and I don’t have much hope that they will respond in my favor based on tons of online reviews regarding this. 

So other than not using the BST, and reading people’s feedback, does anyone have any suggestions of how to protect yourself as a Seller when using PayPal? I certainly won’t be using it in the future if they don’t rule in my Favor. Also extremely disappointed in people. As usual all it takes is one or two Assholes to ruin something. I’ll have to put my trust in Karma that this person gets what they deserve. Definitely makes me leery of selling any big ticket items in the future. I’ve got nothing but good Feedback (so far), and have never had any other issues like this. I don’t know if selling on eBay would provide any protection as a Seller either. 

Anyone that would like pics of said Members PM’s and mine, please PM me and I’ll be sure to share everything with you and to tell you who you need to watch out for. I’ll be sure to provide an update once I hear back from PayPal.

CK89, DiggaDog, KungOscar and 4 others like this post

Northern NJ
Good luck Hunter hope everything works out for you.

TheHunter likes this post

Living on the edge
(This post was last modified: 09-22-2019, 08:46 AM by Tester28.)
(09-22-2019, 06:05 AM)TheHunter Wrote:  Definitely makes me leery of selling any big ticket items in the future.

Terribly sorry to hear of your troubles, Hunter. You are one of the good blokes on this forum.

I read your explanation about why you feel the ruling might go against you and my gut feel
is you may be right...althoughPaypal should tell the buyer to return the goods back to you
before any refunds are provided. They provide Buyers with refunds on return shipping costs
so it should be fine.

While Paypal is a great service if used properly, it is definitely geared towards buyers.
I have sold some fairly high ticket stuff on BST across all forums and these are the 
watertight steps I take to protect both the buyer and myself. They may sound long-winded,
but not one buyer I've had has ever refused to go along with them. It's for everyone's good.

I will list them here as they might assist others in future. 

Note: Paypal does not recognise usernames on forums. So always make sure you have an email
thread between you and the buyer detailing every important aspect of the transaction.

1. Ask for the buyer's email address associated with their Paypal account and use your paypal
email account for correspondence. That way Paypal knows who both parties are.

2. Send the buyer an email clearly detailing:
• product name and offer to sell in the subject line
• condition of the item – I usually describe it verbally and attach pictures in a folder
• price
• shipping method and estimated timeframe for delivery.
• returns policy 
• next steps for buyer

3. The buyer then needs to reply to that email signifying their acceptance of all the terms
and the condition of the item.

4. Once I receive that, I send the request for payment.

5. After shipping, I send the buyer a follow up email, with date-stamped pictures of their package
being prepared at the post office, with shipping address, tracking and customs labels clearly visible.

6. Keep a record of all sales correspondence for at least 6 months.

This has worked well in all my BST situations and I have actually been very lucky to have transacted with some real
gentlemen here and elsewhere.

Hoping for the best outcome for you.

TheHunter, Weekly, LOOT and 1 others like this post
Sorry for your troubles, Hunter. Sucks it's happening to you as I know you to be terribly honest and forthcoming.

This is one reason I'm reluctant to put things on the BST...people just suck in general. I'll put my stuff up on eBay and pay their stupid 10%. I'd really rather gear go to guys here on DFS but it's just not worth the hassle most of the time.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

TheHunter likes this post

It's sharp and it cuts. I like it...
Northeast, USA
Good luck amigo. It’s an uphill battle, especially when Paypal in the majority of transactions favors/sides with the buyer. Like you said, hopefully karma will make a presence. What goes around comes around. I’ve stopped dealing with Paypal a few years ago as I was very active on the auction sites but, a couple of actions went against me just as you even with providing more than enough proof or evidence to validate my claims. It sucks to be honest. Good luck and hopefully fate is on your side on this one.

TheHunter likes this post

Super Moderator
Well that sucks. I hope you at least get the items back.  I’m curious as to the dissatisfied party’s name if you could let me know. 

While it’s sometimes trying, I won’t go so far as saying that people suck. Yes, some people do suck but I’d say that for the most part people are decent.

jags009 and TheHunter like this post

Veni, vidi, vici
Vault 101
This is an unfortunate incident and I am saddened that one of the DFS members has caused such trouble. I have only one suggestion and that is to be cautious using the term NOS. While I understand its meaning, I have seen the term bandied about recklessly. I am in no way suggesting you did so.
IMO, a better terminology would be "Never Used" or "As New". NOS can show wear, through handling over the years and you unfortunately discovered, an unscrupulous buyer may take advantage of the situation. I hope this issue is resolved quickly and to your complete satisfaction.

TheHunter likes this post
Ah, che bel vivere, che bel piacere per un barbiere di qualità... Happy2
Shaving since 1971; enjoying my shaves since 2014.
Sounds more like a misalignment of expectations rather than a scam. Sorry it hasn't worked out.

Standard likes this post

I am sorry to hear about the situation, but did you let the person know about the writing prior to selling it to him NOS to me means exactly that if there was damage and writing on the box then to me that shouldn't be listed as NOS, not wilkipedia`s description, did he know of the issue prior of the sale.

Also you said you would not accept a return, why wouldn't you

(09-22-2019, 02:08 PM)Zhang Doe Wrote: Sounds more like a misalignment of expectations rather than a scam. Sorry it hasn't worked out.
When I say scam I’m referring to the fraudulent claim made that the items were damaged, when they most definitely were not and were as described in the listing.

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