REX Ambassador: My thoughts.

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FINISHING
The components we received from our local AZ machine shop were generally very good. This company has made parts for aerospace, auto and medical industries. This razor certainly put them to the test. We had to create special fixtures to hold the parts and it was challenging to say the least. I understand now why many other companies (rockwell, timeless, charcoal, ikon) have never taken on milling parts but rather chose to cast them. It is extremely difficult and even though things are "CNC" there can be variations. It still takes an operator to make things happen correctly.

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From the Timeless site:

That is why we only use high quality materials, and precision machining methods to produce the best razors possible.

From the Timeless site:

Each razor is manufactured here in the USA, in our state-of-the-art CNC machining facility.

From the Timeless site:

Both pieces of this open comb safety razor head are solid 304 Stainless Steel. Using cutting edge technology your razor head starts off as a raw billet of stainless steel. We then cut, machine, hand polish, and clean your razor head to a brilliant shine or give it a matte finish (your choice). The result is precision you can feel.

Where do you get the notion that Timeless does not use CNC equipment? It's plastered on almost every page. Where does the claim "never taken on milling parts but rather chose to cast them" come from? I can't find the word "cast" anywhere on their site?

If the CNC operator is not "making things operate correctly", fire him. Find one that will produce quality work....or raise your QC and reject every subpar part that hits your doors. You are paying for perfection, accept nothing less. Deliver nothing less. Timeless seems to be able to. Cast or not.

C'mon Matt, you need to make this right. Others may let it go, but I won't. I don't know what the other artisans you called out do for manufacturing, but I know for certain your statement about Timeless is inaccurate.

Do the right thing, please.

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Jeebus somebody has an....

Because I invested in a Timeless, I went straight to the source inquiring about their use of cast parts. The response below is from Timeless Razor's Matt and quoted with his permission. I only changed my name to protect the innocent.

Hi LOOT,
We do NOT cast any of our parts. The handles and stands are turned from a solid bar of SS or titanium on a CNC turning center by my brother Doug.
The baseplates caps are wire cut out of a solid plate of SS or titanium on a wire EDM machine by my brothers Mark, Nick, and Doug. This is a time consuming process but gives very precise tolerances.

That's impressive.

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That's impressive.

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Yes, they are very impressive. A great shaver and impeccably machined/finished. I have the OC Scalloped head. I had a lot of razors hit my den in a short amount of time, several taking priority over the Timeless, for now. That's OK because it's a beauty to look at hanging in the caddy. I did use it yesterday, thanks to this thread. I need to order a .68 base plate for daily driving before I get serious with our relationship.

Because I invested in a Timeless, I went straight to the source inquiring about their use of cast parts.  

I don't want to hijack this thread, and I won't speak for anyone else but myself, but I never thought of a razor purchase as something that I "invested" in.  To me, a razor purchase is a purchase of an item for use or to collect but never as something to invest in.  

I understand the concern about the finish on the Ambassador, and it looks to me like Matt has addressed the issue or has tried to do so.  I hope the Ambassador is a great success.  It's beautiful, it looks well made and it appears that people are happy about the shave.

I hope Matt gets production of the razor dialed in right and that it's a great success but I couldn't care less about whether or not he was incorrect in a post about how Timeless makes their razors.  I guess that may be because I don't see the purchase of a mass-produced consumer good as an investment.  For one thing, Matt hopes to mass produce the Ambassador and markets being what they are, I would think that it's very likely that the price will come down, or at the very least that good quality examples will be found at low prices on the used market. I would think that if Timeless keeps their production up, the cost of a Timeless may well come down, or on the used market examples may well be found at low prices. So "investing" in either an Ambassador or a Timeless is not necessarily a good bet if the idea is that one hopes for a financial gain.

Still on the topic of "investments" I also can't see how the Ambassador competes with any of the Timeless razors, nor can I see how Matt's understanding or misunderstanding about a different product can possibly make one whit of a difference to the dollar value of the Ambassador or the value of a Timeless.  What will make a difference is whether or not the Rex or Timeless continues production, increases production or stops production. I cannot see how Matt's understanding or misunderstanding of Timeless' production methods, or a misstatement on his part can possibly make a difference to the value of a Timeless.

I may well purchase a Timeless and what the maker of the Ambassador thought or didn't think is completely irrelevant to me. I may well purchase an Ambassador and an error that its maker made when he thought about Timeless is also irrelevant to me.

May I suggest that it's time agree that Timeless razors are top of the line in every way.  The four brothers and their father are skilled, and dedicated and they produce a product that is world class, if not world leading.  They don't now cast any of their parts, but should they ever decide to do so, I for one am certain that their cast parts will be as good or better than anything produced today.  Timeless razors are magnificent. They reflect the accomplishments of their makers and can now and no doubt in the future will be held up as examples  of top-notch American craftsmanship.

Having gotten that out of the way, can we now focus on what this thread is about, and that is the Rex Ambassador, which to my mind has all the making of another classic American razor.  

Because I invested in a Timeless, I went straight to the source inquiring about their use of cast parts.  

I don't want to hijack this thread, and I won't speak for anyone else but myself, but I never thought of a razor purchase as something that I "invested" in.  To me, a razor purchase is a purchase of an item for use or to collect but never as something to invest in.  

I understand the concern about the finish on the Ambassador, and it looks to me like Matt has addressed the issue or has tried to do so.  I hope the Ambassador is a great success.  It's beautiful, it looks well made and it appears that people are happy about the shave.

I hope Matt gets production of the razor dialed in right and that it's a great success but I couldn't care less about whether or not he was incorrect in a post about how Timeless makes their razors.  I guess that may be because I don't see the purchase of a mass-produced consumer good as an investment.  For one thing, Matt hopes to mass produce the Ambassador and markets being what they are, I would think that it's very likely that the price will come down, or at the very least that good quality examples will be found at low prices on the used market.  I would think that if Timeless keeps their production up, the cost of a Timeless may well come down, or on the used market examples may well be found at low prices.  So "investing" in either an Ambassador or a Timeless is not necessarily a good bet if the idea is that one hopes for a financial gain.

Still on the topic of "investments" I also can't see how the Ambassador competes with any of the Timeless razors, nor can I see how Matt's understanding or misunderstanding about a different product can possibly make one whit of a difference to the dollar value of the Ambassador or the value of a Timeless.  What will make a difference is whether or not the Rex or Timeless continues production, increases production or stops production.  I cannot see how Matt's understanding or misunderstanding of Timeless' production methods, or a misstatement on his part can possibly make a difference to the value of a Timeless.

I may well purchase a Timeless and what the maker of the Ambassador thought or didn't think is completely irrelevant to me.  I may well purchase an Ambassador and an error that its maker made when he thought about Timeless is also irrelevant to me.

May I suggest that it's time agree that Timeless razors are top of the line in every way.  The four brothers and their father are skilled, and dedicated and they produce a product that is world class, if not world leading.  They don't now cast any of their parts, but should they ever decide to do so, I for one am certain that their cast parts will be as good or better than anything produced today.  Timeless razors are magnificent.  They reflect the accomplishments of their makers and can now and no doubt in the future will be held up as examples  of top-notch American craftsmanship.

Having gotten that out of the way, can we now focus on what this thread is about, and that is the Rex Ambassador, which to my mind has all the making of another classic American razor.  

The wonderful thing about English is words have multiple meanings.  Here is the one I had in mind with the comment.  It should clear things up for you. I have several pieces I do believe I could make a profit on, none of them manufactured within 60 years or so, and they aren't for sale anyway.




Have a great weekend.

devote (one's time, effort, or energy) to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result

I won't quote Charcoal because I didn't ask for permission, but the only cast piece he has is the basic $15 chrome razor head.

I stand corrected on the Timeless . Charcoal comment - apologies for any confusion.

But honestly- what is wrong with casting? Stainless steel or titanium metal injection molding can be incredibly accurate if done right. It is especially helpful in large volume manufacturing - something that needs to happen to the wet shaving world more and more if we want it to keep growing IMHO.

Gillette only became a razor giant because they were stamping metal parts out of solid brass. It was incredibly efficient and high quality at the same time- and Made in USA. That's how they could have a loss leader product like their razor handles and make it up in blade sales.

Wanted to show some iphone 6 camera phone pics of the brushed finish - no fancy lights, in home bathroom.

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