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BoarderPhreak , you might want to remove "menthol" from the Glissant ingredients list (http://dailylather.com/content/history-b...r-and-mann): it's not part of the base formula...

FWIW, Top & Bottom - Ten Artisans of 2016

I assume  your artisan list is non-inclusive as some well known names are clearly missing like LpL and MdC, both universally acknowledged as artisans, are missing. Its not clear to me that ABC and SMN is also not "artisan" although the companies do more than make soap. OTH, Proraso is not artisan as they have over 80 employees and sales over $45M, they are an EU medium sized business. I had never seen Proraso mentioned as "artisan", ever.

Neither is OneBlade artisan as they outsourced R&D (Pensa) and outsourced production, they are not making razors by hand and I don't see how they can be construed in any way as being "artisan." I believe in this thread, the forum came to some kind of conclusion on the definition of artisan https://damnfineshave.com/thread-what-is...an-artisan. After a bit of discussion, the definition seemed to narrow down to  a skilled craftsman in the art of soap making who follows the rules, follows the formula by rote. They are "skilled" in the art of soap making. That does not mean they are good at it nor make a single dollar. - usually making products in small batches by hand Or something like this or close to it. This is not the same as "artist" who creates something new, from scratch. The gist here is once production reaches a certain, undefined, scale, its no longer Artisan.

Not sure RazoRock is artisan. Do they make the products themselves from scratch or outsource them to be commercially made?

I can't say anything about your top 5 or bottom 5 because they are opinions and yours is as good as everyone's else. ...  except one ...

Blades GRIM???  WHAT??


Just kidding. No connection

True, menthol is only present in certain (glissant or otherwise) soaps. I'll remove it for clarity.

As for who's on the list or not or who's an artisan or not, yeah... It's obviously not an exhaustive list (yet) but I'm constantly adding to it. MdC qualifies as an artisan, as does LpL, certainly. RazoRock, sure - why not? I simply draw the line at a commercial entity (e.g. Tabac, Nivea, etc.) I'll probably put them in a separate section (and throw in Proraso). Like I said, the list is constantly growing and I'm certainly all ears as to who's missing and where they best fit... So by all means, keep the suggestions coming! I want to make the list extensive and above all, useful - and accurate.

As for the list, it seems backed up by a whole lot of Reddit folks, though perhaps for different reasons and thus in a different order... But it validates my choices to some degree. I can live with that. But yes, they were chosen by me, for my own reasons (namely quality, going above and beyond, yada yada). As for the bottom five, like I've said - I didn't put them on that list... They did.

RazoRock, sure - why not?  

Razorock - From Razorock although they can speak for themselves but this is what is on their website "began contacting artisan producers of shaving soaps and aftershaves in Italy and contracting them to make special formulations"  This is not different than Maggards contracting with TTFFC to make their soaps and just labeling them "Maggards" instead of TTFFC. It appears Razorock is a reseller, not an artisan.

Oneblade is definitely not artisan by any definition. The tool was designed by Pensa http://design-milk.com/oneblade-by-pensa/ . See http://pensanyc.com/?portfolio=oneblade and is made in China? Not sure. But there is no one in some basement cutting up hunks of metal and hand making razors.

Route 66 is an artisan about a year https://damnfineshave.com/thread-route-6...ated-retro

ADP is owned by LVMH but its products are artisanal https://www.lvmh.com/news-documents/news...oir-faire/ "Acqua di Parma artisans use rare essences, waxes, leathers, wood and refined metals to created fragrances ..." although I can see an argument that as a subsidiary of a larger corporation they are no longer artisan, surely the people making them meet the definition of artisan.

ABC is artisan. http://www.thebespokedudes.com/en/artisa...eria-colla

“We've created a range of products starting from those that have always been used in this shop”, she explains. These are original recipes from 1924  ... “my dad didn't even want to tell me the recipe” - she confesses.

and is listed as Italian Artisan http://www.bacoluxury.com/category/artisanal/page/4/

Boellis Panama is described as Artisanal in about every descriptions I could find. http://www.italianbarber.com/products/bo...-soap-250g "While chatting with Michele Boellis in Naples in the summer of 2011, he explained how he was instrumental in the creation of this new formula of shaving soap and he would settle for nothing less than perfection from the artisan made Panama 1924 line."   That's right from the horses mouth.

Santa Maria Novella has to be the mother of all artisans. http://www.wtg-global.net/travel-directo...-florence/  ancient artisan recipes, I know no where in the definition of artisan where they have to be "new".

BTW, LpL might not be artisan for long ... https://translate.google.com/translate?s...&edit-text=

Like other "artisans" he sells more than soap and might outsource production I have several solutions: hire or subcontract part of my production.

RazoRock, sure - why not?  

Razorock - From Razorock although they can speak for themselves but this is what is on their website "began contacting artisan producers of shaving soaps and aftershaves in Italy and contracting them to make special formulations"  This is not different than Maggards contracting with TTFFC to make their soaps and just labeling them "Maggards" instead of TTFFC. It appears Razorock is a reseller, not an artisan.

Oneblade is definitely not artisan by any definition. The tool was designed by Pensa http://design-milk.com/oneblade-by-pensa/ . See http://pensanyc.com/?portfolio=oneblade and is made in China? Not sure. But there is no one in some basement cutting up hunks of metal and hand making razors.

Route 66 is an artisan about a year https://damnfineshave.com/thread-route-6...ated-retro

ADP is owned by LVMH but its products are artisanal https://www.lvmh.com/news-documents/news...oir-faire/ "Acqua di Parma artisans use rare essences, waxes, leathers, wood and refined metals to created fragrances ..." although I can see an argument that as a subsidiary of a larger corporation they are no longer artisan, surely the people making them meet the definition of artisan.

ABC is artisan. http://www.thebespokedudes.com/en/artisa...eria-colla

“We've created a range of products starting from those that have always been used in this shop”, she explains. These are original recipes from 1924  ... “my dad didn't even want to tell me the recipe” - she confesses.

and is listed as Italian Artisan http://www.bacoluxury.com/category/artisanal/page/4/

Boellis Panama is described as Artisanal in about every descriptions I could find. http://www.italianbarber.com/products/bo...-soap-250g "While chatting with Michele Boellis in Naples in the summer of 2011, he explained how he was instrumental in the creation of this new formula of shaving soap and he would settle for nothing less than perfection from the artisan made Panama 1924 line."   That's right from the horses mouth.

Santa Maria Novella has to be the mother of all artisans. http://www.wtg-global.net/travel-directo...-florence/  ancient artisan recipes, I know no where in the definition of artisan where they have to be "new".

BTW, LpL might not be artisan for long ... https://translate.google.com/translate?s...&edit-text=

Like other "artisans" he sells more than soap and might outsource production I have several solutions: hire or subcontract part of my production.

Are we about to replay the pedantic "Gentleman" conversation with artisan now?

Are we about to replay the pedantic "Gentleman" conversation with artisan now?

I think you mean "again" instead of "now"...

This forum already went round and round trying to establish a definition for the word "artisan" that did not rely on some 150 year old dictionary, a personal blog post, and a clearly personal agenda to clarify...

At the end of the conversation, I believe the consensus was that there is very little consensus...

Razorock - From Razorock although they can speak for themselves but this is what is on their website "began contacting artisan producers of shaving soaps and aftershaves in Italy and contracting them to make special formulations"  This is not different than Maggards contracting with TTFFC to make their soaps and just labeling them "Maggards" instead of TTFFC. It appears Razorock is a reseller, not an artisan.

I don;t think there is an argument here. RazoRock and Maggard's are vendors...resellers.

But the soaps they offer as their own are, by all accounts, artisan soaps, made by artisans, by almost every definition...

None of those definitions requires the artisan to take public credit for their creation, do they?

Razorock - From Razorock although they can speak for themselves but this is what is on their website "began contacting artisan producers of shaving soaps and aftershaves in Italy and contracting them to make special formulations"  This is not different than Maggards contracting with TTFFC to make their soaps and just labeling them "Maggards" instead of TTFFC. It appears Razorock is a reseller, not an artisan.

I don;t think there is an argument here. RazoRock and Maggard's are vendors...resellers.

But the soaps they offer as their own are, by all accounts, artisan soaps, made by artisans, by almost every definition...

None of those definitions requires the artisan to take public credit for their creation, do they?

You seem very sure...

I can't say about TTFFS and Maggard's, but on no account Razorock products are artisan made...

Tcheon Fung Sing makes their products, which is a large soap company located in Italy. It's the same soap company that makes soaps and products for a number of "artisan" companies. By definition, artisan maker is not someone who makes a few thousands of soaps. I want to believe that you now understood why their soaps are NOT artisan made.

RazoRock, sure - why not?  

Razorock - From Razorock although they can speak for themselves but this is what is on their website "began contacting artisan producers of shaving soaps and aftershaves in Italy and contracting them to make special formulations"  This is not different than Maggards contracting with TTFFC to make their soaps and just labeling them "Maggards" instead of TTFFC. It appears Razorock is a reseller, not an artisan.

Oneblade is definitely not artisan by any definition. The tool was designed by Pensa http://design-milk.com/oneblade-by-pensa/ . See http://pensanyc.com/?portfolio=oneblade and is made in China? Not sure. But there is no one in some basement cutting up hunks of metal and hand making razors.

Route 66 is an artisan about a year https://damnfineshave.com/thread-route-6...ated-retro

ADP is owned by LVMH but its products are artisanal https://www.lvmh.com/news-documents/news...oir-faire/ "Acqua di Parma artisans use rare essences, waxes, leathers, wood and refined metals to created fragrances ..." although I can see an argument that as a subsidiary of a larger corporation they are no longer artisan, surely the people making them meet the definition of artisan.

ABC is artisan. http://www.thebespokedudes.com/en/artisa...eria-colla

“We've created a range of products starting from those that have always been used in this shop”, she explains. These are original recipes from 1924  ... “my dad didn't even want to tell me the recipe” - she confesses.

and is listed as Italian Artisan http://www.bacoluxury.com/category/artisanal/page/4/

Boellis Panama is described as Artisanal in about every descriptions I could find. http://www.italianbarber.com/products/bo...-soap-250g "While chatting with Michele Boellis in Naples in the summer of 2011, he explained how he was instrumental in the creation of this new formula of shaving soap and he would settle for nothing less than perfection from the artisan made Panama 1924 line."   That's right from the horses mouth.

Santa Maria Novella has to be the mother of all artisans. http://www.wtg-global.net/travel-directo...-florence/  ancient artisan recipes, I know no where in the definition of artisan where they have to be "new".

BTW, LpL might not be artisan for long ... https://translate.google.com/translate?s...&edit-text=

Like other "artisans" he sells more than soap and might outsource production I have several solutions: hire or subcontract part of my production.

Really? Again with this nonsense? Who really cares in the end? We all can have different definitions of the word artisan if we want and we can all use and be happy with whatever products we want be they commercial or artisan or shartisan or whatever. Can we just leave it at that and not muck up this guys thread with any more semantic arguments?

Razorock - From Razorock although they can speak for themselves but this is what is on their website "began contacting artisan producers of shaving soaps and aftershaves in Italy and contracting them to make special formulations"  This is not different than Maggards contracting with TTFFC to make their soaps and just labeling them "Maggards" instead of TTFFC. It appears Razorock is a reseller, not an artisan.

I don;t think there is an argument here. RazoRock and Maggard's are vendors...resellers.

But the soaps they offer as their own are, by all accounts, artisan soaps, made by artisans, by almost every definition...

None of those definitions requires the artisan to take public credit for their creation, do they?

You seem very sure...

I can't say about TTFFS and Maggard's, but on no account Razorock products are artisan made...

Tcheon Fung Sing makes their products, which is a large soap company located in Italy. It's the same soap company that makes soaps and products for a number of "artisan" companies. By definition, artisan maker is not someone who makes a few thousands of soaps. I want to believe that you now understood why their soaps are NOT artisan made.

I'm not sure of anything. Someone compared RazoRock to Maggards, and I replied that if the soaps are made by artisans, they are artisanal soaps, despite being relabeled and sold by vendors.

I'm not sure why MdC and LPL, both seemingly large soap makers, would be considered artisan but not TFS... Seems awkward, at best, to me, but what do I know?