#1

Super Moderator
I posted this a few years back and stumbled across it while looking for something else in the vault.  Its good enough to repost because things haven't really got better since then.

I've been following the ebay wolfman posting thread and also posted on it - the attitude displayed by the ebay fellow made me think of an article I read recently (see link below) but I thought I should post it in the Lounge.  The article is In Favor of Sincerity and discusses how modern technology has now made it evolutionarily unnecessary for humans to be smart and the rise of sarcasm and cultural irony in online spaces is evidence of that.  Some well meaning individual posts an articulate and well reasoned opinion on some subject and in march the trolls to "burn" him with derisive remarks, irony, sarcasm, metaphor, like the Piranha Brothers* the trolls are masters of the low brow dig. No attempt to engage in discussion or debate or to address points of contention with equally articulate well reasoned arguments, just a burn - and those watching say "ouch" and are glad they weren't the subject of the troll's sarcastic barb.  

In any case, its an interesting read:  (you have to copy and paste the whole link because only part of it shows as a hyperlink.  weird)


https://medium.com/@dailyzen/in-favor-of-sincerity-d5313e5a3193#.jyjnr93ee

Lbkindy and primotenore like this post
#2

Living on the edge
what is the 'eBay wolfman posting thread'?
#3

Veni, vidi, vici
New Vegas
The anonymity of the internet has given rise to the perversion of human interaction. As my wife's Italian nonna was fond of saying: "Le cose andavano meglio quando erano peggio"
~~~~
Primo
Ah, che bel vivere, che bel piacere per un barbiere di qualità... Happy2
Shaving since 1971; enjoying my shaves since 2014.
#4

Super Moderator
(01-16-2020, 01:20 PM)Tester28 Wrote: what is the 'eBay wolfman posting thread'?
I think it was a thread that got disrespectful quickly
#5

Super Moderator
(01-16-2020, 01:56 PM)primotenore Wrote: The anonymity of the internet has given rise to the perversion of human interaction. As my wife's Italian nonna was fond of saying: "Le cose andavano meglio quando erano peggio"
My Italian isn't good- what does it say?  The more time goes by the ruder people are?

I agree on the anonymity part - civility and respect in the context of face to face communication are a survival strategy. If you went around in public talking to people like many do online you'd either be shunned and banished from the community or pounded into a tiny square.  Either way you'd soon learn manners or you wouldn't survive very long.
#6

Member
Indiana
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2020, 06:09 PM by jimofthecorn.)
(01-16-2020, 04:06 PM)Marko Wrote:
(01-16-2020, 01:56 PM)primotenore Wrote: The anonymity of the internet has given rise to the perversion of human interaction. As my wife's Italian nonna was fond of saying: "Le cose andavano meglio quando erano peggio"
My Italian isn't good- what does it say?  The more time goes by the ruder people are?

"Things went better when they were worse". Big Grin

Marko and Freddy like this post
#7
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2020, 08:08 PM by Steinmetzify.)
Interesting read and quite true. The part about irony masking a lack of self reflection rings true as well.

Regarding the Wolfman stuff, I've seen this mob mentality before, both on shaving and guitar forums.

For guitar gear stuff, you have to be able to prove credibility before anyone will listen to you regarding gear...if you spout an opinion on a guitar/bass/piece of recording equipment and no one knows you, you'll get piled on just for the fact that people DON'T know you, regardless if your info is spot on or not. When you have the chops to back it up and can prove that with clips or videos, you'll get a better reaction for sure.

Interesting correlation between experience and income level/purchasing power that comes into this too; in the guitar forums we call it diminishing returns.

Some guys play $10,000 guitars and swear up and down that they're the best guitars they've ever played and no one else's opinions matter. I've played $10,000 guitars and they're really good; the fit and finish is better, the tolerances are tighter between guitars from the same builders, and the general overall level of guitar is a higher end product, but not worth it to me to upgrade from the $2,000 guitars I play now.

Same with razors....I've read posts from guys who swear up and down they get the best shaves of their lives with an L6 and a stick of Arko. Good for them and I applaud their skill level. That's not me. I know this because I keep a $16 razor around to test technique every couple weeks, and while I'm getting better at it, there's no way that for my skill level a $16 razor works better for me than a $200 razor. I also find it hysterical that these same guys will swear up and down that the expensive razor couldn't possibly be better than their $15 razor, without ever having tried one. It makes me want to send them a Blackbird just to see what they think afterwards.

I'm getting the best shaves of my life with a Blackbird and some $30 soaps, but there's no way to PROVE it like there is with a guitar forum....what am I gonna do, take before and after pics of my face?

This is why I don't rag on the Wolfman guys. Is it worth it to me to buy a Wolfman razor? Not yet. My technique isn't there, the diminishing return cost is too high and I don't feel like my skill level is at the point that I'd get the most out of it.

Will I buy one eventually? Yeah, I will....if only to see if they live up to the hype. If they do, it'll stick around and go into regular rotation, just like the 'expensive' guitars I've bought.

The thing that bothers me about the trolls is two fold.....#1, they either truly believe that there's no way these things can help improve their skill level or #2, they're mad that they can't afford one.

For #1 they're being incredibly narrow minded to think that their skill is untouchable and they're the best that they're ever going to be, that smacks of arrogance and has no place in this gentlemanly hobby. WTF are you on a forum for if you already know it all, just to try and convince everyone else of this 'fact'?

For #2, suck it up buttercup. If you want the razor and don't want to pay for it, you're doing something wrong. Save up, look for a deal, make friends with guys that have them and ask to borrow one, WHATEVER. But ragging on people spending money on something you actually want but don't want to pay for is also not gentlemanly behavior. You want what some call the best razor in the game but you only want to pay $52 after tax? Cmon...

Also, not to take this off the rails, but this comment in the first paragraph of that article astounded me:

'More than 40% of adults don’t read a single book for the rest of their lives after college. And that’s just the people who go to college. Not a single book.'

I read that and my mouth dropped open. This can't be true, can it? I'm a voracious reader and have been for over 40 years...I just took a 3 week vacation and the first day I was off I read 4 books. That statement shocked me and I seriously can't believe it's true.

Marko likes this post
#8

Member
Indiana
(01-16-2020, 08:04 PM)Steinmetzify Wrote: I also find it hysterical that these same guys will swear up and down that the expensive razor couldn't possibly be better than their $15 razor, without ever having tried one. It makes me want to send them a Blackbird just to see what they think afterwards.

You know, I'm sure it can't be better than my $2.50 Dorco... Wink


(01-16-2020, 08:04 PM)Steinmetzify Wrote: I read that and my mouth dropped open. This can't be true, can it? I'm a voracious reader and have been for over 40 years...I just took a 3 week vacation and the first day I was off I read 4 books. That statement shocked me and I seriously can't believe it's true.

4 in 1 day? That's fast, it generally takes me at least a few days to get through anything...though I suppose the fact that fiction goes in through my ears these days might have something to do with it.

Marko and Steinmetzify like this post
#9

Veni, vidi, vici
New Vegas
(01-16-2020, 04:06 PM)Marko Wrote:
(01-16-2020, 01:56 PM)primotenore Wrote: The anonymity of the internet has given rise to the perversion of human interaction. As my wife's Italian nonna was fond of saying: "Le cose andavano meglio quando erano peggio"
My Italian isn't good- what does it say?  The more time goes by the ruder people are?

I agree on the anonymity part - civility and respect in the context of face to face communication are a survival strategy. If you went around in public talking to people like many do online you'd either be shunned and banished from the community or pounded into a tiny square.  Either way you'd soon learn manners or you wouldn't survive very long.

I would "idiomatically" translate it as: "Things were better when they were worse".

Marko likes this post
~~~~
Primo
Ah, che bel vivere, che bel piacere per un barbiere di qualità... Happy2
Shaving since 1971; enjoying my shaves since 2014.
#10

Super Moderator
Good post Steinmetzify , I think what we’re seeing when people staunchly defend their particular opinions is often an example of a phenomenon called confirmation bias. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
If you’ve spent either a sizeable or miserly sum on a razor or a guitar you’re likely to defend that decision as wise and prudent for a whole host of reasons beyond just the quality of the item. I liked this quote 

Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons.

We can all come up with any number of reasons why our preferences or opinions are superior to those of others but really, all that matters is that we’re happy with our choices and respect the choices of others when it comes to this kind of stuff. There is no reason to troll or burn others because their choices differ from yours or even if they don’t differ but you feel they don’t have the chops to express their opinions. 

Another thing I’ve learned is that just because something is expensive doesn’t mean it’s of high quality but almost without exception things of high quality will be expensive.

Freddy and Steinmetzify like this post


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)