How Much Higher Can The Bar Go?

 Grim mentioned SMN above, but aren't they on version 3 of their shaving cream now? Others that went through with reformulations are AdP, AoS, GFT, C&E, Pennhaigons, and probably many more that I am forgetting.

I was talking ADP, SMN, CF, MdC, ABC, and maybe LPL. So here's the difference.

Sure, I think ADP revised its scent. Pretty sure SMN tweaked something. And ABC has been around so long its hard to believe they haven't evole ved.

OTH, the "new artisans" tout V2.0 or V3.5 or whatever. Some, I believe, it just marketing, just like buying "new and improved" detergent or cereal. They advertise heavily their "new version".

Products are improved all the time, and you never know it. It does quietly. When you buy a new car this year, unless you dig into it, you might never know the new materials put into the body to make it lighter or stronger. This is not different. Not sure if CF or MdC has ever changed anything but they are fairly new compared to the older Artisans. Sure, these companies could have improved things, and we might never know it.

AdP changed their soap formula. Just look up pictures of the old ingredients vs new. I love the new formula so no complaints here, just pointing it out. MdC changed their formula and container recently. The formula barely changed but it did change somewhat. Water is now 3rd instead of 2nd, and sodium chloride is added. SMN has had a few different formulas, and from what I read it used to have lanolin early on. XPEC had a formula change too.

My point is that a lot of soap makers change formulas, both commercial and artisan/small batch soap makers.

It's not merely marketing if the ingredients clearly changed. A lot of changes I see with some artisans are tallow formulas offered in addition to or in place of veggie. Some formulas are changed due to complaints of irritation, which I read was the case with AdP but can't say for sure. There are all sorts of reasons to change a formula. Over the last year I think a lot of artisans were attempting to offer a better post shave feel. And there are those that attempt to make their product easier to lather. All sorts of reasons and I have no problem with any of them. If it bothers anyone they can simply look to other brands that don't change their formula.

So I'll make the analogy to cars. How many Bugatti, Bentley, Rolls, Ferrari, Lambo, or Porsche ads to you see on TV?

Now how many BMW, Audi, VW, any American Car, Japanese cars ads to you see? Why don't you see the ads for the luxury cars? They don't need ads. Its the same thing.  

I will claim the venerable old brands innovate ALL THE TIME. You just don't know it. The don't advertise "new and improved". They don't need too. If they didn't, they would fall by the wayside. If Ferrari, Porsche, Bugatti, Rolls and the like didn't continually improve, they would go out of business. But you might have no clue as to what new technologies have gone into the engineering. Same here. You don't know. My post #4 is wrong. I think they DO improve, but silently.

Not to quibble but those luxury brands you refer to have larger advertising budgets than all the other car makers combined.  They have a different strategy, however, such as sponsoring F1 racing teams, pasting their logo all over fencing and patio umbrellas in Monaco during F1 races, lending cars to be reviewed by TV shows like Top Gear and magazines like Road & Track and so forth.  They advertise, make no mistake about it.  The psychology of "luxury" goods is fascinating.  How do you get people to pay more for something than is justified in a purely economic sense?  Supply and demand?  I don't think so.

I don't know about the bar going much higher in terms of software, but I think there is a great amount of room for growth and innovation in wetshaving. The biggest obstacle right now is getting a decent starter kit in places like Walmart, CVS, Target, Walgreen's, etc...  Too many people think wetshaving is terrible or a gimmick because they start with a lousy starter kit from VDH or get an unusable razor from one of the many garbage domains owned by the Blades Grim scammers, and they don't stick with it and they potentially scare others away from trying it with their experience. Had they gotten a decent product from the get go, they might have stuck with it.

The fact of the matter is that wetshaving as a hobby is not the path to riches or a sustainable market. There will only be so many people for so long who will rush out to buy everything they can get their hands on. The path to prosperity and innovation in wetshaving will come from getting a good product in retail stores so the average shaver (who just wants a better way to shave, and may only need one or two soaps, a brush, and a razor to get the job done) can have an acceptable option. If you are a fan of the VDH kit and are offended, my apologies. They are merely an example of why the growth of this niche would benefit from a quality entry into the market. If you are a fan of the blades grim and their myriad of domains, no apologies. Selling unusable rubbish products to the uniformed masses to make a quick buck hurts the potential customer base of everyone other company involved in wetshaving and keeps those customers going back to Gillette and Schick.

You're absolutely right ezlovan the Gillettes and Schicks and other major brands mostly owned by P&G dominate the shelves in the drug stores and supermarkets and by dominate I mean they're virtually the only brands there. Yes, I see some Proraso and that weird cream with caffeine in it but you will never see an artisan's products on their shelves. Maybe this will change gradually as more men start demanding a better shave, however, it seems like many men are satisfied with an "ok" shave. Its not bad enough for them to step out of their comfort zone and try something else. Shaving with a DE, SE or a straight has a learning curve while a multi-blade cart does not. Sure if a guy would give it a month and watch some instructional videos on youtube he'd likely conclude that the wetshaving was better than what he'd been doing but a month is a long time and there might be some difficult shaves in that time. I agree that a decent, well priced starter kit would go a long way in winning over new shavers and while I think it would be very cool and certainly convenient to see products from my favourite artisans on local store shelves, I'm not holding my breath.

I still lump the artisans into the 2 categories where the first thinks "my product is good (or excellent), I'll keep pushing it until sales drop off forcing me to improve the product or perish" while the second thinks "my product is good (or excellent), how can I make it better and stay ahead of the competition?"

There are also many ways to be innovative beyond tinkering with your formula. Seasonal promotions where particular products come around but once a year in limited quantities or limited editions that happen once and then are gone. The idea of doing custom products at customer requests and the collaboration between artisans that happens now and then such as those done recently among Chatillon Lux, Tallow + Steel and L&L Grooming. These are all ways of getting a brand in front of a larger or different audience and generating buzz on a regular basis. Gillette doesn't have to do this because apparently they represent the best a man can be, however, the smaller guys have to work hard for their market share.

I think we should also be considering what the desires of the consumers are as well. As we, as shavers, grow and improve our techniques, our requirements change. As our requirements change, so do the demands that we place on the artisans producing our products.

I think part of the reason you see such a huge push from artisans to improve post-shave feel is a direct result of an increased desire FOR good post shave feel.

You see artisans implementing new tallow/lanolin/shea formulations because those ingredients, and various combinations thereof, are proving to outperform other combinations, or single ingredient formulations.

What I mean is, yes...new shavers can be easily confused by V2.0 products or whatever. So what? Fact is...new shavers are confused between "croap" and "soap". They are confused between boar and badger. They are confused between stubble reduction and beard removal. They are confused on how to hold the razor, how to find the proper angle, how much pressure to apply, which direction to drag the blade, and what combination works best for them.

The bottom line is that new shavers are confused by every aspect of this endeavor. We all were when we started. And we all learned, rather quickly, that most of the our questions were not really that important, it was really just a matter of putting the tools together and trying it out. In very short time, and with only a couple questions on a forum, we all, and they all, figure it out, and start growing our collective skills...

As humans, we are hardwired to search out the next best thing. It is in our genetic code to try and find the best of...whatever it is we are looking for. After using a superior product like B&M or Stirling for several months, it is natural for that product to become "run of the mill" to our perception, so we look for something bigger, better, and stronger. It's what we do. And the artisans advertising that they are trying to meet those demands are the ones that continue to lead the pack.

its a great time for wet shaving and making your wallet scream in fear LOL. Anyways yes I agree, in the days of Gillette, Gem, Ever Ready, Shicks etc etc, there was never as many razors in SS, Brass, Bronze, Titanium and bunch of privateers and small companies making them. Now we still have the vintages available for purchase and the new stuff too, good time for wetshaver enthusiast, collectors and new comers, but not good times for the wallet haha

There is one thing (maybe more than one) to keep in mind when discussing when we might see some top notch artisan products on the supermarket/drugstore shelves. Even if one of these major retailers wanted to stock top notch artisan products, they want to order in such vast quantities that I doubt that any artisan could practically fill such an order. It would be a nightmare, they'd have to farm it out to some major soap factory and I imagine all sorts of aspects of the final product would suffer. Maybe it could be done, the way that some craft beers were contract brewed by major commercial breweries with excess capacity at least initially until their sales and cash flow permitted building their own brewery. Some have stayed with the contract brewing model which is fine if the final product is true to the craft roots and recipe. Could the same thing be done with soap? Should it?

I was just re-reading my post immediately above and it looks like I'm implying that those artisans who've continued to improve and innovate didn't get it right the first time. Thats not what I meant at all, in fact, to name names here, the Barrister And Mann original white label soap is still better, IMO than most of the soaps on the market today and their glissant base soap is better still. The artisans who strive to improve and innovate notwithstanding the fact that they got it right the first time are the ones that keep raising the bar.
Mark

I've been trying to love Glissant, but I still like the White Label and Latha bases better. I have more than 20 white label soaps, 8 tubs of Latha, and 2 Glissant. For some reason, I haven't been able to get the same cushion from Glissant. I'm in the minority with it. Maybe it's my very hard water, but for me the other bases just work better.

I was just re-reading my post immediately above and it looks like I'm implying that those artisans who've continued to improve and innovate didn't get it right the first time.  Thats not what I meant at all, in fact, to name names here, the Barrister And Mann original white label soap is still better, IMO than most of the soaps on the market today and their glissant base soap is better still.  The artisans who strive to improve and innovate notwithstanding the fact that they got it right the first time are the ones that keep raising the bar.
Mark

I've been trying to love Glissant, but I still like the White Label and Latha bases better. I have more than 20 white label soaps, 8 tubs of Latha, and 2 Glissant. For some reason, I haven't been able to get the same cushion from Glissant. I'm in the minority with it. Maybe it's my very hard water, but for me the other bases just work better.

It could be your water, I have a water softener and all of my B&M soaps perform very well. I have a few more B&M soaps than you do - I haven't counted lately, but I'm the first to tell a new shaver or someone new to B&M not to discount the white label (or black label) or Latha soaps believing that the glissant has completely eclipsed them. While the glissant is great, so are all the other B&M soaps and then there is the scent. There are many B&M scents that aren't yet available in glissant and may never be.

There is one thing (maybe more than one) to keep in mind when discussing when we might see some top notch artisan products on the supermarket/drugstore shelves.  Even if one of these major retailers wanted to stock top notch artisan products, they want to order in such vast quantities that I doubt that any artisan could practically fill such an order.  It would be a nightmare, they'd have to farm it out to some major soap factory and I imagine all sorts of aspects of the final product would suffer.  Maybe it could be done, the way that some craft beers were contract brewed by major commercial breweries with excess capacity at least initially until their sales and cash flow permitted building their own brewery.  Some have stayed with the contract brewing model which is fine if the final product is true to the craft roots and recipe.  Could the same thing be done with soap?  Should it?

Of course it should. Thats how capitalism works. Do you think Trumpers or other long time English soap makers always farmed the work out to Creightons (or whoever?) Surely at one time someone started in their basement. How about LPL? They are clearly Artisan yet the owner admits he might need to contract the production out to keep up with demand.


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I definitely want to keep this tradition of artisanal and authentic manufacturing. On the other hand, even if Father Lucien grows, I will always be available to my clients.  ... For now, I operate lean. I have several solutions: hire or outsource a part of my production. I thought.

This is how business is done. You get too big, you hire someone to do the work for you. What difference does it make if the person you hire is you wife and then your kids or a factory? It does not necessarily mean the quality will gone down, especially today since everything is computerized.

Read Mantics article on SJOL http://sharpologist.com/2016/10/intervie...ondon.html

The owner is from Illinois, the company is here, yet Creightons (I think it Creightons) does the work. So what? SJOL still makes excellent shaving creams, good stuff.

There is too much emphasis here about "craft roots" and other artisan mumbo jumbo. There is no magic here, in the technical products. In the customer service, sure, but not the final product.  I really don't understand the adoration or mystique about this. Maybe the rebirth or rejuvenation of an old industry has caused industrious individuals to jump on the bandwagon of an old skill (i.e., soap making) trying to make money. But in the end, its just a business and all businesses have on fiduciary responsibility, the bottom line of the owner or stockholders.