(This post was last modified: 03-18-2019, 07:28 AM by DanielB.)
(03-10-2019, 11:09 PM)mgurmgur Wrote: Cognac and Cuban Cigars Shaving Soap from Henri et Victoria is only $14.95 on Amazon with 2-Day Free Shipping for Prime Members. $13.50 elsewhere, but have to pay for (relatively slow) shipping.
UPDATE: PLEASE IGNORE - THIS IS PRICE IS ONLY VALID FOR A SPECIAL VERSION OF THIS SOAP THAT NEITHER HAS TALLOW NOR LANOLIN.
I TRIED THIS CHEAPER VERSION AND CAN'T RECOMMEND IT.
mgurmgur: I see you've updated the thread since I visited it the other day but I have to say that other than your original post, which was good, I found your other posts in this thread uninformed, over-reactionary, and very unfair, for the following reasons:
- Your reply to another poster's alert that Henri et Victoria also has a higher-priced tallow(non-vegan) soap with the same scent, also available on Amazon (and also at lower total cost than direct from H&V), was that it was a "bit of a d-move" for the listing you shared to have not warned buyers & potential buyers about the other product. But that's an unreasonable expectation!
While it's not actually a bad idea for H&V to mention in their listing that this product is part of their vegan shaving soap line and that the same scent is available in their separate triple-milled tallow soap line, it's hardly irresponsible or manipulative of them to not have done so. They *do* list the ingredients of each product in their listings. Should potential customers want to know what other products the same company offers on Amazon beside the one they're looking at, they can use the search box on the page or click the company's name at the top of the listing. Calling H&V's non-mention of their other product line(s) in their listings a 'd-move' —or even "a bit of" one— is a completely unnecessary reaction, and beyond unfair to them.
- You said it was "especially [a d-move] given that" even H&V's $15 product is more expensive than Stirling's soaps (which it seems you're a fan of, as are many). FYI: many if not most of the North American-produced artisan shaving soaps are priced higher per ounce than Stirling's. And like H&V, many shaving soap makers also produce shaving soap in multiple bases, at different price points; the US$13.50-$15 that H&V's standard-line soap sells for is around average; many artisan's shaving soaps are priced higher. So there's nothing "d-move"-ish about it (the $15 soap, anyhow). And let's not forget you thought that same $15 price was worth sharing a day earlier! How on earth does finding out they also produce a more expensive soap sour that?
- Apparently, based on your first & only use of the $15 soap after it arrived from Amazon, you declared it had "sucky performance" and said you'd "alert potential buyers on Amazon, as well". How about giving a shaving soap at least a few uses before coming to such a firm conclusion? How about giving a product more than 1 use before warning others off it?
FYI: shaving soaps are not created equally — they'll have different ingredients, be made with familiar ingredients that are of differing quality, be made with different proportions of ingredients, or be made with different processes. And they'll perform differently because we customers have different loading techniques, different shaving brushes (different types of fibers and different water hogging and releasing characteristics), and we will have widely varying local water quality... which affects the latherability. Universally, some trial-and-error experimentation is needed by new soap owners to find the ideal balance of amount of product to use and amount of water to add. You might be lucky enough to get it right or close-enough-to right on your first use (and I might not) but usually some adjustment is needed in order to dial it in. Too much product/not enough water, it will dry out - while not enough product/too much water, will cause it to break down and lose the cushion it ought to provide/that you may desire.
So to say you'll "go warn" potential buyers after just 1 (or 2 or 3 uses) is irresponsible and unfair — unfair to the soap and the artisan (H&V), unfair to potential buyers on Amazon who might one day read your review/warning, and unfair to readers of this thread or anyone else that you tell who might be swayed by your mediocre first experience.
- You wrote: "Amazon is allowing me to send this bait-and-switch product back to the owner for a full refund. Sweet." They sent you the product pictured and described, did they not? Everything posted so far suggests they did, so that in no way, shape, or form is bait and switch. Bait-and-switch would be you ordered the tallow soap at $27 and they sent you the $15 non-tallow soap. As that's not what happened, I cannot imagine why you feel so wronged and came to use the words that you did.
- Same quote as above — even if Amazon.com allows 'any reason' returns, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should! (Or at least not initiate a return so quickly). Did you seek solutions to any issue that you might have? Did you only initiate the return after contacting H&V, even if that was to complain about whatever it was you felt they had done and request they make it right or to share your experience using their product and ask for any tips or suggestions that might improve your lather? Did you do your own experimentation and adapt your lather-making process over a number of days? Were you not at all interested in learning why 'sgrdddy' might write "great performer!" while your experience was so different? It seems not.
Now because of your knee-jerk reaction, H&V has an unhappy customer, a customer who is actively bad-mouthing their product/brand online, a wasted product (even if returned, it's used so they can't resell it), a refunded sale, and they'll have incurred fees+expenses processing your order with absolutely nothing to show for it.
Most shaving product artisans have excellent customer service due to the fact that they understand they operate in a niche market and that word-of-mouth is all important. Sometimes vendors screw up, sometimes they do stupid things, sometimes things go wrong beyond their control, and yes, sometimes their products don't live up to expectations. Questions, comments, feedback (constructive criticism) - i.e. communication from AND with their customers is crucial if they are to improve. They can only make it better for you and other customers if they know what they did wrong and are given an opportunity to make it right. A quick Amazon return & refund helps no one.
- Your update-edit to the first post: "PLEASE IGNORE - THIS IS PRICE IS ONLY VALID FOR A SPECIAL VERSION OF THIS SOAP THAT NEITHER HAS TALLOW NOR LANOLIN." — is again, an uninformed, unnecessary, and over-reactionary comment. First, the soap you bought is not "a special version", it is simply H&V's vegan soap base. If you go to their website, you'll see they also have a "Vegan 2.0" line in a couple of scents (but not C&CC at this time), and they have a triple-milled tallow-based line (the one HighSpeed posted about). If 2 of their 3 shaving soap lines don't contain tallow+lanolin... some might say that makes the tallow version the 'special' one — or, they might just say what it actually is, which is that none are "special versions", they're just different products lines.
Next, I'm puzzled why you would write "PLEASE IGNORE". After all, the point of your original post as to say that Amazon Prime members could get H&V soap cheaper on Amazon than elsewhere. That is still true today.
Finally, your posts suggest you have somehow got the idea into your head that tallow+lanolin is a must-have combination of ingredients for a shaving soap to be decent/worthy of purchasing. Sure, Stirling Soap's shaving soaps have both those ingredients — as do many of the top-performing soaps from other makers (and they're sold at a wide range of price points because again, there's far more to a soap than 2 ingredients) — but it's not a requirement for a good-to-great soap to contain them. Vegan soaps by definition don't, and there are numerous artisans with vegan options or vegan-only soaps on offer. And some of them outperform some tallow+lanolin soaps. Anyhow, once again, the H&V listings on Amazon accurately list each product's ingredients, so anyone who originally went to Amazon.com and searched for the $14.95 soap you referred to could have seen for themselves that it was a non-tallow soap and more to the point, there's really no reason for them to have expected it to be.
You've probably guessed that I'm a H&V fan, and I am. Among the 80+ soaps/creams that I've tried to date (many of them samples), I own full tubs of H&V's C&CC shaving soap in their 2016 vegan base, in their 2018 vegan formula (identical listed ingredients but the soap is a different consistency, much softer), AND in their 2018 triple-milled tallow(+lanolin) formula.
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After seeing your posts, I shaved with all 3 over recent days. The 2 vegan soaps formulations were fantastic as always (both easy to lather, nice volume of high-quality lather produced, good cushion, good slickness, v. nice post-shave feel) but the triple-milled tallow soap was a bit underwhelming when I used it the other day, for the first time in months. Density & slickness weren't right and cushion was affected. But I know what I did wrong with that one: I didn't load enough soap and tried to make up for my protolather's lack of volume by adding a bit too much water. The next day, I used the tallow soap again and this time loaded longer. I was rewarded with the usual fabulous H&V lather. Further proof that you can't judge a soap from a single use, and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with their current "vegan" line. It's a real shame you didn't like the soap, didn't give it a better opportunity to prove itself, and were so critical of H&V for their the Amazon.com listing, when they'd done nothing wrong.
