#1
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2019, 03:27 PM by gLet.)
Below is my opinion and not a “chicken and an egg analysis”. I don’t care about the controversy between those two companies because better PR should have been done by VB and Baili. I am here only to compare the two as they are really not the same razor except for the handle being identical.

Here are my chieftain and baili. The handles are identical but that’s where the similarities stop. The chieftain is on the right and the Baili on the left.

The head profile of the chieftain is not the same as baili. The base plates are different and the comb guard on the chieftain is a different design and much bigger. The chieftain has 4 smaller Lather channels and the Baili has two large ones.

The chieftain is 20 grams heavier and feels sturdy and shaved much better.

So for me, Baili seems to have copied the chieftain. You have to ask yourself if it was an original Baili razor design, then it would have been much easier for VB to use the exact same design and rebrand it like most resellers do.

The Baili is a cheaper striped down OEM razor, you can see Maggard’s review of it in YouTube.

The chieftain is a better shave for me. It’s heavier and built better.

That’s my two cents worth of information. Until a better design comes out in the non adjustable TTO, VB has the better design and quality IMO For a modern TTO. Mind you the vintage Gillette’s TTO will give you a better shave but my analysis was for a modern TTO.

[Image: 2cfd22165cd3054c2c58853f4961172b.jpg][Image: b6ea78b50d45c4e6d38d34469c95345c.jpg][Image: f2482989fc778c987ec2e538732270b4.jpg][Image: a08e8a18dcdd395f0221ba49c5af0201.jpg][Image: 5aa17d7708ea9f41e306f932b52b963a.jpg]


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#2
(02-08-2019, 06:47 PM)gLet Wrote: Below is my opinion and not a chicken and an egg analysis. I don’t care about the controversy between those two companies because better PR should have been done by VB and Baili. I am here only to compare the two as they are really not the same razor except for the handle being identical.

Here are my chieftain and baili. The handles are identical but that’s where the similarities stop. The chieftain is on the right and the Baili on the left.

The head profile of the chieftain is not the same as baili. The base plates are different and the comb guard on the chieftain is a different design and much bigger. The chieftain has 4 smaller Lather channels and the Baili has two large ones.

The chieftain is 20 grams heavier and feels sturdy and shaved much better.

So for me, Baili seems to copy the chieftain. You have to ask yourself if it was an original Baili razor it would have been easier for VB to use the exact same design.

The Baili seems like a cheaper striped down OEM razor.

The chieftain is a way better shave for me. It’s heavier and built better.

[Image: 2cfd22165cd3054c2c58853f4961172b.jpg][Image: b6ea78b50d45c4e6d38d34469c95345c.jpg][Image: f2482989fc778c987ec2e538732270b4.jpg][Image: a08e8a18dcdd395f0221ba49c5af0201.jpg][Image: 5aa17d7708ea9f41e306f932b52b963a.jpg]


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Very useful post, thanks

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#3
Excellent post, gLet! Whatever went on in the past, your post shows the current state of things. That settles the matter once and for all - the Vikings Blade Chieftain is different from the Baili BD179. If anyone says otherwise, all that is needed is to post a link to this thread.

Vullion, you folks paying attention? This is how it should have been handled.

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#4
As odd as it may sound, I find reviews of cheap Third World razors far more interesting than artisan "boutique" razors as the makers in the Third World don't have carte blanche "kickstarter" budgets and as such requires them to be more resourceful (sometimes). It's surely hit 'n miss, but when you get a winner it makes it all worthwhile. I sometimes shave with a $5.99 Baili BR171 3 piece razor and it works great.

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“...As I use a Rim Fire Winchester Rifle, I would like to have one of your .44 pistols that would fire the same cartridge, as carrying two sizes of or kinds of cartridges in this Indian country is a nonsense.”


George D. Merriam letter to Smith & Wesson 9 June 1873.
#5
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2019, 01:57 PM by gLet.)
(02-09-2019, 03:45 AM)BPman Wrote: As odd as it may sound, I find reviews of cheap Third World razors far more interesting than artisan "boutique" razors as the makers in the Third World don't have carte blanche "kickstarter" budgets and as such requires them to be more resourceful (sometimes). It's surely hit 'n miss, but when you get a winner it makes it all worthwhile. I sometimes shave with a $5.99 Baili BR171 3 piece razor and it works great.

Some of the boutique razors are a hit or a miss as well, but boy do you feel it in bank when it’s a miss.


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#6

Merchant
Australia
Dear gLet and Tbone,

This is Tristan, product designer of Vullion Group (Vikings Blade).

Thank you for clearing this up for us.

I just wrote a post on another thread to acknowledge our shortcomings in terms of PR and Marketing.
Yes, it's been very horrible. And it will need to be improved immediately.

From today onward, please don't hesitate to PM me or ask me anything.
I will be Vikings Blade's point of contact on this forum.
I am not a hired Customer Service person but a family member that designs many of our products.

We are very obsessed with your feedback and most of our products are results of constant communication with customers via email.
We truly owe this to you guys.

Have a great day/night.

================
Tristan
Vullion Group (Vikings Blade)

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Tristan Character
VIKINGS BLADE
#7
(03-15-2019, 02:50 PM)Vullion Group Wrote: Dear gLet and Tbone,

This is Tristan, product designer of Vullion Group (Vikings Blade).

Thank you for clearing this up for us.

I just wrote a post on another thread to acknowledge our shortcomings in terms of PR and Marketing.
Yes, it's been very horrible. And it will need to be improved immediately.

From today onward, please don't hesitate to PM me or ask me anything.
I will be Vikings Blade's point of contact on this forum.
I am not a hired Customer Service person but a family member that designs many of our products.

We are very obsessed with your feedback and most of our products are results of constant communication with customers via email.
We truly owe this to you guys.

Have a great day/night.

================
Tristan
Vullion Group (Vikings Blade)


Hi Tristan and welcome to the forum!
All the folks here are super awesome!

Thanks for your response and reaching out to the wet shaving community. It’s great that you are taking steps to improve your processes. This is so cool!

We are all passionate about shaving and it’s encouraging when razor artisans/manufacturers/designers etc...participate and reach out to the community. It’s positive and constructive.






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#8
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2019, 05:56 AM by Tbone.)
gLet , based on what you posted here and in the other threads, I decided to buy a Vikings Blade Chieftain. The price on Amazon is $29, perhaps a wee bit high, but still reasonable. Just before making the purchase, I checked the reviews. After reading and verifying them, I went with the Baili BR171 three piece razor instead. At $6 from Groomatorium, it's a steal. It looks like the BD176 on Amazon for $12 is the same razor with a travel case included. Thanks for the info you posted on the Chieftain and BD179, though. It is really interesting and useful.

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#9

Merchant
Australia
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2019, 06:33 AM by Vikings Blade.)
(06-03-2019, 04:59 AM)Tbone Wrote: gLet , based on what you posted here and in the other threads, I decided to buy a Vikings Blade Chieftain.  The price on Amazon is $29, perhaps a wee bit high, but still reasonable.  Just before making the purchase, I checked the reviews.  After reading and verifying them, I went with the Baili BR171 three piece razor instead.  At $6 from Groomatorium, it's a steal.  It looks like the BD176 on Amazon for $12 is the same razor with a travel case included.  Thanks for the info you posted on the Chieftain and BD179, though.  It is really interesting and useful.

Dear TBone,

Tristan from VB here. Thank you for your comment. I read your opinion about verifying reviews with Fakespot and I understand your point. Here's my explanation.

Over the past 2 years, Amazon went through an automated cleansing process known as “The Great Amazon purge”. This is a nightmare well known to all Amazon sellers (including some super big names) and its catastrophic effect has caused multiple honest small-sized businesses to shut down overnight.

The Amazon robot removed all reviews from legit buyer accounts that have only written very few reviews, been inactive for a long time, or only written good reviews, or only bad reviews. Some sellers are affected badly (80% reviews removed) , some affected moderately (like us, only 15%).

The most notorious and unfortunate example is Merkur. Initially with over 7000 reviews, Amazon deleted over 5600 reviews from Merkur's most popular razor. Fakespot can confirm this, as this information is accurate.

However, other than the number of reviews removed, websites like FakeSpot are not approved by Amazon and were initially designed to spot "dodgy" products from companies that gave away 10,000s of “free items” during launching period to build a fake successful impression. This is something we don’t do. Fakespot themselves is known to be unreliable and inaccurate when it comes to judging the actual content of the reviews, as you can see in this review page on Trustpilot: https://au.trustpilot.com/review/fakespot.com

Of course our company is far from perfect and we need a lot of improvement. We desperately need support from customers like yourself to help us improve our existing designs. At the moment we're the only known company on Amazon that constantly and regularly rebuilds their existing razor molds based on customer opinions. We are not afraid of losing money to rebuild new molds, as long as the upgraded iterations give a better shave.

The Baili razor you got is a steal. It is a great budget razor and I have nothing but respect for them, as the bad blood and misunderstandings have been cleared between our 2 companies. However, the Baili razor is a very mild and light razor, and shaves significantly different from the Chieftain (more aggressive and heavier). They are 2 totally different products that (unfortunately) look 70% similar in appearance.

Regardless of what you choose, Chieftain or Baili, I can say that you won't be disappointed!

Feel free to PM me anytime, as I genuinely value your opinions.

Tristan Character
VIKINGS BLADE
#10
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2019, 10:53 PM by Tbone.)
(06-03-2019, 06:20 AM)Vikings Blade Wrote: The Amazon robot removed all reviews from legit buyer accounts that have only written very few reviews, been inactive for a long time, or only written good reviews, or only bad reviews. Some sellers are affected badly (80% reviews removed) , some affected moderately (like us, only 15%).

The most notorious and unfortunate example is Merkur. Initially with over 7000 reviews, Amazon deleted over 5600 reviews from Merkur's most popular razor. Fakespot can confirm this, as this information is accurate.
Using only one review checker won't necessarily give an accurate picture of what is going on. That is why I check using both Fakespot and Review Meta. They aren't perfect, but are what we have for now. I have seen them both rate Amazon products highly that had lots of obviously fake reviews, so they aren't perfect.

Quote:However, other than the number of reviews removed, websites like FakeSpot are not approved by Amazon and were initially designed to spot "dodgy" products from companies that gave away 10,000s of “free items” during launching period to build a fake successful impression. This is something we don’t do.
That you don't do pay-to-review is greatly to your credit. It is no surprise that review checkers are not approved by Amazon or other review sites, as they do not want to have their reviews questioned.

Quote:Of course our company is far from perfect and we need a lot of improvement.
I think you are are very much on the right track now, regardless of past events. To be clear, my choice of razors was due to not being able to trust the Amazon reviews, not due to a dislike of Vikings Blade as a company. The Baili BD179 had an even higher percentage of removed reviews, in case that matters. "Could not trust the reviews" does not mean a given product is bad, it just means I now think that the Amazon reviews carry little meaning.

Quote:We desperately need support from customers like yourself to help us improve our existing designs.
From what I can see, your existing designs are quite good just the way they are, especially the Chieftain. If your customers gave you feedback in the past, Vikings Blade obviously listened.

Quote:The Baili razor you got is a steal. It is a great budget razor and I have nothing but respect for them, as the bad blood and misunderstandings have been cleared between our 2 companies. However, the Baili razor is a very mild and light razor, and shaves significantly different from the Chieftain (more aggressive and heavier). They are 2 totally different products that (unfortunately) look 70% similar in appearance.
I got the BR171 three piece razor, not the BD179. Comparing your Chieftain to the BD179, I think I would like the Chieftain much more. The Chieftain is heavier and the price is now reasonable. Also, the BD179 is rated by Maggards as 1 out of 10 for aggressiveness in the video gLet noted above. That might be good for some, but I would consider it a waste of money. I am buying the razor for travel, and if I lost a Chieftain I would be bummed out. Not so much for a $6 razor. If someone were to ask me what is a good TTO safety razor, I would certainly mention the Chieftain as an option.

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