#1
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2018, 02:20 AM by yohannrjm.)
I've refrained from offering any suggestions regarding BST threads, because I have read and understood the rules that DFS has regarding BST transactions. I understand why these rules are in place, and I actually agree with them for the most part.

A recent thread in the BST got me thinking again about whether the rules should at least be revisited and reconsidered. I don't insist on this, and please feel free to close this thread if it is deemed too controversial and divisive. But I thought some polite and well-reasoned discussion may help.

My understanding of the way DFS approaches BST threads with regards to asking price is basically this: the seller can ask for whatever they want and the market and buyers can choose to buy at their asking price or not.

This is clear and reasonable. Nobody is forced to buy anything and the market can determine what something is worth. I only have one quibble with it and it may be a personal one. It's this: When I think about buying something, I usually check FS and SOLD prices on the forums to see what the going market value is and what the original price was. This information is not always available, especially if something was a limited edition or the manufacturer is not making them available anymore. In fact, some sellers obscure the prices after the items have sold.

I've actually found myself looking for that information without success in the recent past. I basically have no idea what the item cost and it makes it very difficult to determine if I could perhaps find the item for a better price elsewhere.

My suggestion is just this: allow sellers to sell their items for whatever they want to ask for them. However, I would love to see the original price listed, if possible. If that's not available, then at least mention how much you paid for it or approximately what the going market rate is.

Something like this: I have here a Vintage Simpsons Manchurian Chubby 3 brush. This hasn't been available for several years. I paid $400 for it 5 years ago and am listing it for $600.

That's clear. It lets potential buyers know why the item is priced the way it is and they can choose to pay the price or not. It also makes the seller's standpoint clear - "This is worth $XXX to me at the moment and that's what I want to make on this sale."

The current rules absolve the seller of all responsibility and puts the onus for determining value on the buyer solely. This is fair, but I'd really appreciate some help in determining value. Also, it's reasonable to ask a seller that's trying to make money on a deal to at least admit to it in an open forum.

Maybe this is asking too much, especially of the mods who have to police sales. Perhaps it could be a request instead of a rule that sellers mention what their item originally cost (if it was a recently available item) or what it seems to cost these days.

Anyway, it's just a thought. I'm probably being selfish in trying to make it easier for myself, but I wanted to see what others here thought about it.
- Yohann
#2

Super Moderator
San Diego, Cal., USA
Hi Yohann.  I understand where you are coming from and it is why I originally had doubts about andrewjs18's laissez-faire attitude about this.  Ultimately, though, I believe he is right.  No matter what is done, someone won't be happy (and trust me on this Rolleyes).  While what you are suggesting is somewhat of an ideal, I don't believe it will happen like that every time and then, even though it shoudn't, it will be left to the moderators to sort things out.

Our rules are pretty straightforward.  No PayPal Friends & Family (which folks sometimes conveniently ignore), the seller may ask what he wants, and the buyer can say yea or nay to the asking price.  Admittedly, this means a bit of due diligence on the part of the buyer but is that necessarily a bad thing?  In a perfect world this wouldn't be necessary.  Sadly, the world isn't perfect.

Just my 2¢, my friend, so take it for what it's worth.

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#3
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2018, 03:38 AM by yohannrjm.)
Freddy - I actually agree with what you say here. I was being a bit idealistic, to be honest.

I've been trying to work out other possible solutions, but they all seem to be unworkable. The options I came up with were:

1) Allow other users to comment on prices. We've all seen how this is unworkable and devolves into chaos quickly. So that's out.

2) Have every BST sale thread 'watermarked' with a warning that prices may not be representative or fair. This may be possible, but I don't know if it would help.

3) Allow no comments on BST threads. I think this may be the best option as it allows no comment whatsoever on the BST threads and eliminates the issue of people feeling the need to comment when they think someone is being underhand. It also puts some pressure on the OP to price an item invitingly or have the thread get buried quickly with no option to bump it.

It still doesn't take care of the issue of figuring out if the asking price was okay. I remember when I started out on B&B that I was pretty naive about vintage razor prices and it was only after getting burned a few times that I figured out how to research prices to make sure I wasn't overpaying. I wish there was a way to eliminate people using the forums to gouge others, but I think you've correctly pointed out the issues that arise when the forum tries to police these sales.

Thanks for your reply, Freddy.

Freddy likes this post
- Yohann
#4
A valiant effort, Yohann, and I concur with your idealistic propositions, but, alas, there seems to be too many challenges to overcome, even though I'll always be overly optimistic. Smile

Freddy likes this post
Celestino
Love, Laughter & Shaving  Heart
#5

Member
Ferndale, MI
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2018, 05:31 AM by wyze0ne.)
Why not just PM the seller if you have any questions regarding missing information instead of requiring them to list the details about what they paid for the item?

I say leave it the way it is.
- Jeff
#6

Super Moderator
San Diego, Cal., USA
(11-27-2018, 03:38 AM)yohannrjm Wrote: Freddy - I actually agree with what you say here. I was being a bit idealistic, to be honest.

I've been trying to work out other possible solutions, but they all seem to be unworkable. The options I came up with were:

1) Allow other users to comment on prices. We've all seen how this is unworkable and devolves into chaos quickly. So that's out.

2) Have every BST sale thread 'watermarked' with a warning that prices may not be representative or fair. This may be possible, but I don't know if it would help.

3) Allow no comments on BST threads. I think this may be the best option as it allows no comment whatsoever on the BST threads and eliminates the issue of people feeling the need to comment when they think someone is being underhand.  It also puts some pressure on the OP to price an item invitingly or have the thread get buried quickly with no option to bump it.  

It still doesn't take care of the issue of figuring out if the asking price was okay. I remember when I started out on B&B that I was pretty naive about vintage razor prices and it was only after getting burned a few times that I figured out how to research prices to make sure I wasn't overpaying. I wish there was a way to eliminate people using the forums to gouge others, but I think you've correctly pointed out the issues that arise when the forum tries to police these sales.

Thanks for your reply, Freddy.

(11-27-2018, 05:16 AM)celestino Wrote: A valiant effort, Yohann, and I concur with your idealistic propositions, but, alas, there seems to be too many challenges to overcome, even though I'll always be overly optimistic. Smile

(11-27-2018, 05:27 AM)wyze0ne Wrote: Why not just PM the seller if you have any questions regarding  missing information instead of requiring them to list the details  about what they paid for the item?

I say leave it the way it is.

Gentlemen, I agree with all of these which goes back to my original argument that there is not a single solution that isn't, in some small way, flawed.  Generally, but not always, what we have here at DFS works and, yes, often it involves due diligence on the part of the buyer.  In its own way perhaps that is better than the perfect answer. Winking

yohannrjm likes this post
#7
Yep, Freddy , this was likely an exercise in futility. Smile

I still have this vague feeling that there's something not quite right about DFS's policy regarding BST prices, but I can't come up with an alternative that would be better. It's probably best left as-is.

Freddy likes this post
- Yohann
#8
(11-27-2018, 03:35 PM)yohannrjm Wrote: Yep, Freddy , this was likely an exercise in futility. Smile

I still have this vague feeling that there's something not quite right about DFS's policy regarding BST prices, but I can't come up with an alternative that would be better. It's probably best left as-is.

Yeah, its probably the "best of the all the terrible options". I generally believe in not instituting rules (having seen how much those have wreaked havoc on other fora) and instead, maybe its too idealistic of me, relying on the good character of DFS members and caveat emptor.

Freddy likes this post
#9

Super Moderator
San Diego, Cal., USA
(11-27-2018, 03:47 PM)jpakstis Wrote:
(11-27-2018, 03:35 PM)yohannrjm Wrote: Yep, Freddy , this was likely an exercise in futility. Smile

I still have this vague feeling that there's something not quite right about DFS's policy regarding BST prices, but I can't come up with an alternative that would be better. It's probably best left as-is.

Yeah, its probably the "best of the all the terrible options".  I generally believe in not instituting rules (having seen how much those have wreaked havoc on other fora) and instead, maybe its too idealistic of me, relying on the good character of DFS members and caveat emptor.

While caveat emptor is never a bad thing, I believe most of our members are honorable and do their best to be fair to all concerned.
#10

Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2018, 10:17 PM by andrewjs18.)
while not a bad suggestion, it would take a lot of moderation to make sure people are doing it. for me personally, I can't be bothered with it. in fact, having to find the price paid or what the item is going for before listing something for sale would deter me from listing an item altogether. I think this might be the feeling for a lot of people, too.

it'd be easier for us just to lock the bst from comments other than those from the thread starter, in my opinion.
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.


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